Why don't the Indies protest?

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
User avatar
Benny's Friend
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:11 pm
Location: AKA Resistance is Futile / AKA Patricia Curtis
Contact:

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by Benny's Friend » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:59 am

Let's just get back on topic. And stop the name-calling. Glib has posed some thoughtful questions here. I'd like to hear from more posters, their take on this issue. I find it extremely interesting.
The more who speak out, the more who get out.

User avatar
RealityWillTell
Posts: 3103
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:05 pm

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by RealityWillTell » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:04 am

TPark wrote: The first hit on my name courtesy of a member of this forum.
Which is just the tip of an iceberg.

http://vimeo.com/2356742

I just love how you are insistant on promoting that video! Thank you Terril! :D
(and I find it funny how you ignore the reason that was made and how you were fairly warned but went ahead anyway :roll: :lol: )

As for what BF was talking about you know what she meant but there's that "knowing how not to know" of hubturd's that you use as an excuse when it suits you.

Just like scientology, Terril never changes. He just puts on his blinders and keeps going on anyway! :roll:
Image
.

TPark
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:23 pm

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by TPark » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:20 am

RealityWillTell wrote:
TPark wrote: The first hit on my name courtesy of a member of this forum.
Which is just the tip of an iceberg.

http://vimeo.com/2356742

I just love how you are insistant on promoting that video! Thank you Terril! :D
(and I find it funny how you ignore the reason that was made and how you were fairly warned but went ahead anyway :roll: :lol: )

As for what BF was talking about you know what she meant but there's that "knowing how not to know" of hubturd's that you use as an excuse when it suits you.

Just like scientology, Terril never changes. He just puts on his blinders and keeps going on anyway! :roll:
The last time I promoted that video was...when?
http://www.freewebs .com/techoutside thecofs

http://internationa lfreezone. net

Below one may see a British TV program of
scientology as its used in the Freezone.

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=the+beginners+guide+to+L+ron+...

User avatar
skeptic2girl
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:14 am

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by skeptic2girl » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:22 am

I think that indies really should focus on the abuses they see in the "church" and protest accordingly -- they're right about those wrongs.

I understand why they wouldn't want to protest with Anonymous but they really are on the same side.

I don't ever see the Co$ just plain ol' not existing, but even if it does, that can't and won't stop people from doing self-auditing with fellow indies.

I was going to make a reference to the Big Bad being the orgs, and why not protest outside the orgs, but then I'm thinking: hold it, if you believe in Scientology, what the orgs are selling is fine, right? It's DM and what he does that are wrong, correct? So you wouldn't want to protest outside the orgs because then you would seem to be anti-Scientology. But the "church" is anti-YOU, as an indie, because they see you as a betrayer. So how WOULD you feel about the orgs as an indie? As in, not Sea Org, but your friendly neighborhood org?

Where would be good to protest?
"The truth is out there."

User avatar
'Alert'
Posts: 5218
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:09 pm
Location: Bondi Beach
Contact:

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by 'Alert' » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:01 am

Benny's Friend wrote:Let's just get back on topic. And stop the name-calling. Glib has posed some thoughtful questions here. I'd like to hear from more posters, their take on this issue. I find it extremely interesting.
Sorry I is bad sometimes. But when I see this.....
TPark wrote:
Benny's Friend wrote:Ok, kids, we have a policy of no name-calling here, so I'm asking those of you who have name-called in your posts to kindly go back and edit the name out. There is a much more creative way to make your point. And to new poster, operatingwog, your post will not be approved for obvious reasons.

Come on, folks, keep it civil.
You actually have a mod here? Who even knows what to do?

Is your post because I called an idiot an idiot or this accusing me of genocide.:-

'Alert' wrote: TPark has forever danced around a myriad of questions that expose scientology to be a psycho-political belief system that commands the genocide of people"
...... I am going to respond for no other reason that it highlighting the core of the question of this thread, IMHO.

What is highlighted is just another reason why many, if not most FZ/Indies do not protest at all. It's not about the Nony thing, it's about their level of denial and obfuscation or 'acceptable truth' or bold-faced lies that are trotted out when needed as a defense in playing the victim
So much so that TPark is trying to fool the casual reader into thinking that he is being accused of genocide by someone. When if fact, the FZers/Indies know forewell what is written in Science of Survival alone outlines the fate of anyone not fitting into hubbard's idealogy of whom deserves existence and whom does not.

Sorry if I have over-contributed to a derail, BF. There are FZer's/Indies that are old-hats at conning people.
After all, they're just running hubbard's 'case' as if it were their own.


The "Freezone" referred to in the previous posts, sells the same "tech" of the malevolent charlatan known as L. Ron Hubbard.

It is this poster's opinion and many well credentialed experts after many years of studies, that this "tech" is responsible for the torturous death of Lisa McPherson as well as many other documented cases involving suicides, including Elli Perkins who was murdered by her own Schizophrenic son, and Michael and Kathryn Walicki who also perished at the hands of hubbards teachings about 'mental Illness' not being real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4AwDLKb_YE
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?do ... 6890322937

Be good to yourself. Do the research.

Peace...Alert


http://skepdic.com/dianetic.html
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/dianetics.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~johanw/CoS/targets-defence.txt
http://www.carolineletkeman.org/writing ... ckers.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/atac ... -trap.html


TPark/basicbasic wrote:

I've always had a leaning for the dispossessed, the disenfranchised, the poor and the weak. So here I am.



viewtopic.php?p=211202&highlight=#211202

(on behalf of Jarboy98)



Report of the Board of Enquiry into Scientology
by Kevin Victor Anderson, Q.C.

Published 1965 by the State of Victoria, Australia

The Anderson Report
CHAPTER 23
DANGERS TO MENTAL HEALTH

[...]

There was further expert psychiatric evidence that such techniques as listen style auditing encourage a trust and dependency by the patient on the auditor. and tend to mobilize guilt and bring up emotions and anxiety in the preclear. Such anxiety tends to provoke more symptoms, more anxiety and perhaps more depression, leading to a worsening of the situation. In any event, being a good listener or interviewer is not sufficient. What is required is an understanding of the complexities which are involved, an understanding impossible of attainment by a person whose only claim is that he is a scientology-trained auditor.

The danger to mental health is further emphasized by the peculiar basis of scientology. Its practitioners use techniques based on impossible theories and directed towards the treatment of "conditions" said to be brought about by completely fictitious circumstances. Based on fantasy, scientology has built up a body of "knowledge" which is fanciful and simply not true: thus scientology treats its imaginary "diseases" or conditions with its own fantastic procedures. The alarming feature is that real diseases and conditions do exist and often the fantastic scientology procedures are positively harmful to the real condition. It is like applying an oxy-welding torch to a leaking rubber tube to weld on a patch of rubber over a hole that does not exist, the real trouble being a leaking valve.

It is unnecessary to dwell further at any length on the harm which scientology has done and can do to the mental health of the community. It is not to be doubted that scientology techniques worsen and prolong the mental troubles of the mentally ill and that they produce in even a normal person disturbances and anxieties which may precipitate mental trouble.
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

User avatar
Benny's Friend
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:11 pm
Location: AKA Resistance is Futile / AKA Patricia Curtis
Contact:

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by Benny's Friend » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:31 am

skeptic2girl wrote:Where would be good to protest?
Glib told me once that her favorite place to protest is at public events, such as IAS, because she likes to interact with members. That's where I think the Indies should protest. And instead of holding signs that have anti-Miscavige or anti-church slogans, I think they should have all have signs that say their own name, followed by "left the church due to human rights abuses." Like,

JOE SCIENTOLOGIST
LEFT THE CHURCH
DUE TO HUMAN
RIGHTS ABUSES


I think that would create a positive impression on the civilian world and it would have an enormous impact on public Scientologists, especially if they recognized any of the names.
The more who speak out, the more who get out.

User avatar
daisy
Posts: 1002
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:52 pm
Location: Benicia, California

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by daisy » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:07 pm

Good points made on this thread. Why don't Indies protest? Maybe they are afraid to look like victims. In scientology, there is no victims! Can you get that concept? There are no victims. A child being abused? He/she pulled it in. Have a disease? You pulled it in. Feel bad about your experiences in a cult? You pulled it in. The indies think of themselves as powerful advocates of the true tech. No matter what they may have experienced in scientology, they sure as hell are not victims.

We got in a cult. Did we know it was a cult? No. If we had entered an org and they said "how would you like to give up total control of your thoughts, your life and give us all your time and money?''. We would have run out of there. But they fed us lies and we drank the kool-aid and that makes of victims of a cult. Indies will not accept that. It is especially hard if they are OT's.

So the idea of indies outside of a scientology building holding up signs would make them look at effect not cause and that is one big no-no in the scientology cult.

User avatar
RealityWillTell
Posts: 3103
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:05 pm

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by RealityWillTell » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:36 pm

TPark wrote:
RealityWillTell wrote:
TPark wrote: The first hit on my name courtesy of a member of this forum.
Which is just the tip of an iceberg.

http://vimeo.com/2356742

I just love how you are insistant on promoting that video! Thank you Terril! :D
(and I find it funny how you ignore the reason that was made and how you were fairly warned but went ahead anyway :roll: :lol: )

As for what BF was talking about you know what she meant but there's that "knowing how not to know" of hubturd's that you use as an excuse when it suits you.

Just like scientology, Terril never changes. He just puts on his blinders and keeps going on anyway! :roll:
The last time I promoted that video was...when?
Wow Terril, hubturd's tech really never helped you at all did it (in fact it must have done some damage)! :lol: :lol:

You've been on the internet for how long and you really are clueless about it eh!!! :lol: :lol:

Every time you put that link in a post you help to move it up in the rankings on any search engine! THAT'S HOW!!! :roll: :lol:

Both the youtube & vimeo pages for that video have been helped by you and then you complain as to where it ends up in the rankings when you put your name in a search engine!!

:mrgreen: :proud: :P :lol: :twisted:

End Thread derail/

As far as the indies not protesting like I said early on in this thread their love of Hubbard is what's getting in the way of their joining in the fun. They do at least seemingly draw some of OSA's focus away from the critic's, anon, & OG so they do help in a way! :D
Image
.

User avatar
I'mglib
Posts: 5742
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 pm

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by I'mglib » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:50 pm

Why don't Indies protest? Maybe they are afraid to look like victims.
I've noticed this, Daisy. Even talking about the beatings is a tricky thing for Marty and Mike. I've noticed that they don't really talk about it on Marty's blog. At first I thought it was really strange. Then I realized that they don't want to look like victims.

It's another case in Scientology where up is down and black is white.

If you shut up and take it, you're not a victim. If you speak out, you are a victim. If you study Ron's words and accept every one, then you "know" and you're capable. If you question, or think for yourself you don't get it.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

User avatar
skeptic2girl
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:14 am

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by skeptic2girl » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:29 pm

I'mglib wrote:
Why don't Indies protest? Maybe they are afraid to look like victims.
I've noticed this, Daisy. Even talking about the beatings is a tricky thing for Marty and Mike. I've noticed that they don't really talk about it on Marty's blog. At first I thought it was really strange. Then I realized that they don't want to look like victims.
I think that the want to not be a victim - or at least not be labeled as one - is not limited to the world of Scientology. There is the perception that as a victim, you must have made bad choices or made yourself vulnerable. People might even think of you as stupid or naive.

In fact, I would argue that the word "victim" has taken on a negative connotation these days; I will go farther and say that actually - objectively speaking - being a victim is something people have become ashamed of.
"The truth is out there."

User avatar
daisy
Posts: 1002
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:52 pm
Location: Benicia, California

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by daisy » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:06 am

skeptic2girl wrote:
I think that the want to not be a victim - or at least not be labeled as one - is not limited to the world of Scientology. There is the perception that as a victim, you must have made bad choices or made yourself vulnerable. People might even think of you as stupid or naive.

In fact, I would argue that the word "victim" has taken on a negative connotation these days; I will go farther and say that actually - objectively speaking - being a victim is something people have become ashamed of.
Certainly it is not limited to scientology but I am talking about scientology and how scientologists think. Most of the times in our lives we are responsible for our choices. But when you join a cult like scientology, you really are not informed truthfully about the organization. Furthermore you are lied to about the organization, then starts the mind manipulation. You are now under the cult's control and we all know what decisions are made from there out.

Here are is some definitions of victim:
noun
1.
a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of an automobile accident.
2.
a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an optical illusion.
3.
a person or animal sacrificed or regarded as sacrificed: war victims.
4.
a living creature sacrificed in religious rites.

Of course as a scientologist, a victim is someone who feels that he is not responsible for what has happened to him. He has committed contra-survival acts (overts) and therefore has pulled-in horrible things (motivator). So he will now blame others. This is called nattering. Marty calls some ex's natterers, which means we are just bitching or motivating and crying about what was done to us. Maybe, some independents don't want to be seen as natterers so they don't protest. If Marty gave the OK to protest then probably some of them would.

I don't buy the afraid of PI's and afraid of disconnection stuff like I use to. I believe there are other fears that some independents haven't faced. In time. Some therapy wouldn't hurt.

TPark
Posts: 1147
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:23 pm

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by TPark » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:12 am

Benny's Friend wrote:
skeptic2girl wrote:Where would be good to protest?
Glib told me once that her favorite place to protest is at public events, such as IAS, because she likes to interact with members. That's where I think the Indies should protest. And instead of holding signs that have anti-Miscavige or anti-church slogans, I think they should have all have signs that say their own name, followed by "left the church due to human rights abuses." Like,

JOE SCIENTOLOGIST
LEFT THE CHURCH
DUE TO HUMAN
RIGHTS ABUSES


I think that would create a positive impression on the civilian world and it would have an enormous impact on public Scientologists, especially if they recognized any of the names.
Excellent idea! Thinking about it. :)
http://www.freewebs .com/techoutside thecofs

http://internationa lfreezone. net

Below one may see a British TV program of
scientology as its used in the Freezone.

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=the+beginners+guide+to+L+ron+...

User avatar
tamasin-sp
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:23 pm
Location: All over the place

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by tamasin-sp » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:43 am

OK, I don't know why the Indies don't protest, what the hell is an Indy anyway?

I don't pretend to have all the answers to everything Scientology, but I know this, from having spent my childhood as a scientology child, not through choice, through having parents that were wrapped up in this so called philosophy that became a living nightmare for me.

Scientology gave me nightmares beyond what any child should have to forego, not only me but for many children that had NO choice in the matter, because their parents sought some kind of existance in some supreme world that would make all the horrors of life disappear, because one man said he had the answers to the universe and they believed him.

I never believed him, well, not completely, which is why I departed so early in life.

One thing I will grant is the one protest I felt I actually made some headway is at East.Grinstead when they were having their prime IAS event a couple of years ago. Some so called bigwig came out and with full TRs tried hard to stare me out. I actually got right out in the middle of the road and sported my sign which read:

Scientology, Committing Human Rights Abuses since the 1960s.

What I actually failed to know enough about was it was started in the 1950s.

Why didn't I know this, well, perhaps it was because I wasn't born until 1957.

And for me, It started in the 1960s, 1964 to be precise, when my family became enbroiled into this psuedo philosphy that changed the course of history.

The bigwig, whomever he was, was not able to out confront me, as I was defiant, and eventually he gave in and departed.

Perhaps people should sport signs that read "I am Sharone Stainforth"( or whom ever they should be) and I left in whatever year because of Human Rights abuses, maybe that is the way forward, I don't know.

All I do know IS that Scientology is a mental health therapy that causes people to have mental health problems.I know this because of my own Father, I know this because of Hana Eltringham, someone I once knew. I know this because of Yvonne Gillham. I know this because of my stepmother, Lynne Newman and I know this because L. Ron Hubbard turned people I loved, Amos Jessup, Peaches and Ron Pook, Janis Gillham, Peter Jr Gillham,Belkacem Ferradj,Suzette Hubbard and Quentin Hubbard. These were the people I thought of as family, when I had no one else to look to as an 11 year old child. I don't want to be looked upon a victim, I don't like victimology, and I know that some of the people I have mentioned have suffered a worst fate than I did, I know that, I do not need to be reminded.

And I sure as hell do not need some freezoner whom thinks he knows all there is to know about what happened aboard the Apollo to tell me where I should be in life, regarding what went on, on the Apollo.

You have NO idea, No idea at all.

And why do you have no idea, because you were not there, at all, you just have some romantisized idea of what L. Ron Hubbard was all about, and it is nothing compared to what he really was.
Look at our brokenness.
We know that in all Creation
Only the human family
Has strayed from the sacred way.

Teach us love,compassion,honour
That we may heal the earth
And heal each other.(part of an Ojibway prayer)

User avatar
Sponge
Posts: 14692
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:23 am
Location: U.K.

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by Sponge » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:59 am

TPark wrote:
Benny's Friend wrote:
skeptic2girl wrote:Where would be good to protest?
Glib told me once that her favorite place to protest is at public events, such as IAS, because she likes to interact with members. That's where I think the Indies should protest. And instead of holding signs that have anti-Miscavige or anti-church slogans, I think they should have all have signs that say their own name, followed by "left the church due to human rights abuses." Like,

JOE SCIENTOLOGIST
LEFT THE CHURCH
DUE TO HUMAN
RIGHTS ABUSES


I think that would create a positive impression on the civilian world and it would have an enormous impact on public Scientologists, especially if they recognized any of the names.
Excellent idea! Thinking about it. :)
Terril, would something like......

"Miscavige! Give scientologists their church back"

or

"Miscavige! Give scientology back to the scientologists"

...be a good doubt-creating message for the various flavours of independent scientologist to protest with?

Gumbythetruth

Re: Why don't the Indies protest?

Post by Gumbythetruth » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:51 am

Why don't the Indies protest?

Shame.

No organization with the exception of a free blog created by another Kool aid drinker.

Not social .

Broke.

Found out co-dependent stupidity just does not work.

Lazy.

Still broke.

The tech no workie and they now know it, but are ashamed to admit it.

OR there is not enough of them to fill a meeting room @ the local Best Western.

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests