What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by Smurf » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:33 pm

Don Carlo wrote:Let's not fight over this anymore.
Why not? There are alot of unanswered questions and though Bob Minton has passed, it continues to invite questions to Mike Rinder's & Marty Rathbun's decades of criminality & victimization of innocent people, that for some pussies believe should be put to rest because M & M are no longer in the corporate church, but continue to attest to being Scientologists.

This fight needs to continue as there are many unanswered questions and alot of their victims are not so willing to forgive or forget.

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by I'mglib » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:37 pm

I don't think anyone's fighting.

There's new information about this situation, now that Rinder is out and talking. Hopefully more will come, and I think it should be aired.

People present both sides, and so far no one has called anyone names. Winning!
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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by Tigger » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:15 am

Don Carlo wrote:Let's not fight over this anymore.
It's about time "this" got settled,
don't you think?

Why even Mark Bunker has suggested asking Rinder and Rathbun specific questions. So
Don Carlo, do you have any you want to ask?

Tigger

P.S. I wonder who was the first to wave the white flag of "friendship".....Stacy? Rinder?
Minton? I also wonder if Rinder had visions of some Minton money raining on his head.
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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by skeptic2girl » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:35 am

It occurs to me that if we need to agree with all the actions of any (human) source of information in order to judge it as being valid, we wouldn't have much data to work with.

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by ArnieLerma » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:19 am

Here is what the nigerian Junk Bond buyback was all about.(The african Business deals)
This was where Bob Minton made his big bucks, AKA Minton bucks.

Nigeria had issued a boatload of government bonds... that is borrowed a pile of money. Their bonds were considered "junk" after the price of oil collapsed. They were trading for 22 cents on the dollar. Thats a JUNK Bond.

The Nigerians contacted Solomon Brothers, asking how much they would want to structure a covert (No publicity) buy back of all their outstanding bonds, quietly, without driving up the price. Solomon Bros wanted 4 percent... The total amount was billions, I dont recall how many... Bob's partner got wind of the deal as he was doing business in nigeria and Bob and his Partner (name omitted) offerred to do what the Nigerians wanted and take 2 percent. 2 percent of one billion is 20 million... Bob and His partner acting as investment bankers created structures that quietly started buying up all of Nigeria's outstanding debt. They Nigerians gave them the money to do it, they were there executers of the purchases through a series of corporations that they formed around the world. The subtrefuge was to hide the fact that the Nigerian Government was the ultimate buyer in order to get the bonds back as cheaply as possible.

There was nothing shady or illegal done, it saved the nigerian government tens of billions of dollars... and Bob and his partner took 2 percent less expenses.. ( half what Solomon Bros had demanded for the identical service)

Nothing more to it. This is how the financial world works, with discretion.

Years after this deal, (and a year before the LMT closed) Scientology PI Lebow went to Nigeria with briefcases of cash and bribed the members of the Nigerian senate to sign a letter of possible (word that means bad financial conduct) on the part of Bob Minton. Of course this was bullshit, but that never slowed down scientology, did it?

Armed with this purchased fictitious letter Lebow went to geneva Switzerland and approached the ex head of the geneva bar association with a shore story (not mentioning scientology) and hired this lawyer in geneva to try to pressure the Swiss Fianancial Police into freezing Bob's accounts.

LeBow, also paid the Maitre'd of a swiss hotel where Bob's partner had his business office $50,000 USD to enter Bob's partner's offices and xerox every piece of paper in it. < this detail was told to Bob by Rinder - Bob had previously thought that his partners office had been burglarized by Scientology. Scientology went through the papers and created a dossier and sent the data to UK Inland Revenue....

The effort to get that ex-head of the geneva bar association to get the swiss Financial police to freeze his accounts was derailed after Bob called me in a panic, after he got a fone call from a banker at one of his banks advising him that somthing was up and the Swiss Financial police were asking questions And he was FREAKED, and he called me, asking me what could he do? But I wont be telling how it was derailed here, just that it was VERY effectively handled, some of what was found out was what became this posting.

Oh, and I think Bob said that the most the nigerian government had to pay was twenty eight cents on the dollar, to buy back the last of their government issued bonds, saving the people of Nigeria tens of billions of dollars.. and then the price of oil started going up again...as the Nigerians had expected, which is why they wanted to get it back cheap and screw their bondholders before their bonds went back up to parity.

PS: when the ex head of the geneva bar association found out who his new client really was, HE dropped him as a client.
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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by J. Swift » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:34 am

Arnie, thank you for posting the details/clarification on the Nigerian deal. Together with what Mark Bunker posted over at Marty's blog, this helps many of us understand what went on with Bob Minton.

IMO, what some critics refuse to understand is that while ours is mostly black and white work with clear Good and Evil, there are sometimes shades of gray. This is hard for the Absolutists on either side to understand. That Bob Minton came to consider Mike Rinder to be a friend speaks volumes about both men. The power of just listening and trying to understand what other people are saying can be incredibly transformative.

As the walls keep breaking down, once former enemies can now talk in the open online. Parts of this thread were some of the most important posts I have ever seen on OCMB.

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by Smurf » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:15 pm

J. Swift wrote:IMO, what some critics refuse to understand is that while ours is mostly black and white work with clear Good and Evil, there are sometimes shades of gray. This is hard for the Absolutists on either side to understand. That Bob Minton came to consider Mike Rinder to be a friend speaks volumes about both men. The power of just listening and trying to understand what other people are saying can be incredibly transformative.

As the walls keep breaking down, once former enemies can now talk in the open online. Parts of this thread were some of the most important posts I have ever seen on OCMB.
There was alot to Bob Minton's "relationship" with Mike Rinder that we are not aware of Swift and it is reckless to make assumptions about someone that is not here to address them. Many of the critics here were not critics in the 90s and early 2000 when Mike Rinder was coordinating his reign of terror as OSA Director and have no clue to the impact that his complicity in criminality had on the lives of innocent people. Now, that he's out, very uninformed people want to play nice & pretend all the terror he perpetuated on people didn't happen, so much that some critics have friended him on Facebook. If Adolf Eichmann were alive today, they'd be forgiving & friending him, too. It's very sad, really.

Minton's desire to forgive & move on was motivated by his desire for less duress & peace in his life which is one of the reasons he & Stacy moved to Ireland. Bob was a complicated man. He forgave, but he did not forget. Now, that he's dead, apologists come out of the closet to speak on his behalf. I don't believe you, personally, were around Bob Minton during his fighting days with the cult, Swift, and anything you offer is complete hearsay or what you think was the game.

I WAS around at that time, had many sit-downs with Bob, and was well aware what was happening as Bob was not afraid to talk about it, as was Gerry Armstrong, Dennis Erlich & others who had various degrees of Bob's attention, like Mark Bunker, Jeff Jacobsen, Patricia Greenway, and others who were closer to the fire than I was. I remember well the intense hatred Bob had for Mike Rinder and Scientology execs in general after he stepped into the fray; even moreso when Mike Rinder went behind his back to contact Therese (his wife) and coordinate ops against his two daughters at their elementary school.

Stacy would be more apt to speak to the truth of the matter on how Bob really felt, but she's not talking and that's her right. I don't think Mike Rinder should be burnt at the stake, but he should be fully accountable for his actions and not hide behind his friends that seek to play the role of his apologist and PR rep.

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by AnonyMary » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:54 pm

Smurf wrote:
J. Swift wrote:IMO, what some critics refuse to understand is that while ours is mostly black and white work with clear Good and Evil, there are sometimes shades of gray. This is hard for the Absolutists on either side to understand. That Bob Minton came to consider Mike Rinder to be a friend speaks volumes about both men. The power of just listening and trying to understand what other people are saying can be incredibly transformative.

As the walls keep breaking down, once former enemies can now talk in the open online. Parts of this thread were some of the most important posts I have ever seen on OCMB.
There was alot to Bob Minton's "relationship" with Mike Rinder that we are not aware of Swift and it is reckless to make assumptions about someone that is not here to address them. Many of the critics here were not critics in the 90s and early 2000 when Mike Rinder was coordinating his reign of terror as OSA Director and have no clue to the impact that his complicity in criminality had on the lives of innocent people. Now, that he's out, very uninformed people want to play nice & pretend all the terror he perpetuated on people didn't happen, so much that some critics have friended him on Facebook. If Adolf Eichmann were alive today, they'd be forgiving & friending him, too. It's very sad, really.

Minton's desire to forgive & move on was motivated by his desire for less duress & peace in his life which is one of the reasons he & Stacy moved to Ireland. Bob was a complicated man. He forgave, but he did not forget. Now, that he's dead, apologists come out of the closet to speak on his behalf. I don't believe you, personally, were around Bob Minton during his fighting days with the cult, Swift, and anything you offer is complete hearsay or what you think was the game.

I WAS around at that time, had many sit-downs with Bob, and was well aware what was happening as Bob was not afraid to talk about it, as was Gerry Armstrong, Dennis Erlich & others who had various degrees of Bob's attention, like Mark Bunker, Jeff Jacobsen, Patricia Greenway, and others who were closer to the fire than I was. I remember well the intense hatred Bob had for Mike Rinder and Scientology execs in general after he stepped into the fray; even moreso when Mike Rinder went behind his back to contact Therese (his wife) and coordinate ops against his two daughters at their elementary school.

Stacy would be more apt to speak to the truth of the matter on how Bob really felt, but she's not talking and that's her right. I don't think Mike Rinder should be burnt at the stake, but he should be fully accountable for his actions and not hide behind his friends that seek to play the role of his apologist and PR rep.
Didn't you read Stacy's Dec 2009 email to Mark Rathbun that got posted on the net after his account was hacked?

Copy from pastebin ( now gone from that server)
01.-------- Original Message --------
02.Subject: Two cents
03.Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 13:56:41 +0000
04.From: Stacy Brooks <stacystewartbrooks@gmail.com>
05.To: Marty Rathbun <sthtexlensman@aol.com>
06.
07.
08.Hi Marty,
09.
10.I'm writing with regard to a post you made on your blog, "Inquiry of
11.Oz," on December 1. It was a news story from the Sydney Morning
12.Herald, and you prefaced it with an appeal for input. You said, "I am
13.interested in your views as to whether you think this helps steer
14.things into better focus, or whether it simply exacerbates a wholly
15.negative situation. I have no strong view one way or the other, so I
16.am interested in other viewpoints."
17.
18.I see that you have been inundated with opinions about this, so
19.forgive me if you are overrrun on the whole thing. From what I've
20.read, most people are encouraging you to continue to speak out about
21.DM's abuses. No one is in a better position to do so than you, that is
22.for sure. But I wish you wouldn't. I wish you would concentrate on
23.helping people by applying the tech with the same kind heart and
24.compassion that you showed to me when we talked on the phone. You have
25.a gift. You changed my life with just a little bit of 2wc. You can
26.change people's lives for the better. To me that is more important
27.than exposing DM's outrageous behavior. People have been exposing his
28.bad behavior for years and it hasn't changed anything. The people just
29.disappear, and he keeps on going.
30.
31.Mike and I had a conversation a few weeks back that came to mind when
32.I read your appeal for input about this recent news story. I told him
33.it had been my feeling at the LMT that if we had any chance of helping
34.the people inside Scientology it would be by gathering evidence of
35.DM's criminal behavior and getting him prosecuted. Mike said something
36.I will never forget (and I am sure the two of you have talked about
37.this subject, so this will not be a new idea to you). He said that
38.getting an agency to pay serious attention to such evidence would be
39.extremely difficult, and if an agency did decide to pursue the
40.allegations, what did I think would happen when they arrived at the
41.base? They would be met with hundreds of people who all insisted there
42.was nothing wrong and the allegations were false. And that would be
43.the end of that. Without any witnesses, there would be nothing they
44.could do. He said in his view a better way would be to get
45.Scientologists to withdraw their support of DM by letting them know
46.there is a much better alternative. (He didn't say those words but
47.that is what I got from what he said.) What he said made sense to me.
48.
49.Since then I have been following your blog regularly, thinking that if
50.there is anyone who has a chance of freeing Scientologists from their
51.belief that their only choice is to stay on line at the official
52.Church, it is you. With your compassionate big heart and humble
53.spirit, born of your own well known experiences, you can let them all
54.know that there is an alternative; they don't have to keep giving all
55.their money to the IAS and disconnecting from their friends and family
56.as the price of their freedom. And the staff don't have to spend their
57.lives on the RPF or in lower conditions, being screamed at and beaten
58.up as the price of their freedom. LRH said, "The tech is free; keep it
59.so." That is the most important message that you are delivering. I
60.think it's a lot more important than speaking out about DM. Everybody
61.loves a fight, the bloodier the better. So everybody is encouraging
62.you to fight DM. But maybe that isn't your job in all of this. Maybe
63.you could leave that to others and you could concentrate on rescuing
64.the tech from this monster.
65.
66.I guess I am worried about you. I keep thinking of the policy, "If you
67.leave us alone, we'll leave you alone." I am afraid DM is going to
68.become as obsessed with destroying you as he did with all the other
69.people who have come before you who tried to change the Church by
70.going to the media and government bodies like the Australian
71.parliament with stories of abuse and human rights violations. I don't
72.have any doubt that you are smart and savvy and experienced enough to
73.be able to predict his every move against you. But in the end I am
74.afraid he will win that game, because it isn't a game you want to
75.play. You just want to help people, so your heart won't be in it like
76.his is.
77.
78.If I knew then what I know now, I would never have tried to beat DM at
79.his own game. I never had a chance because it wasn't what I wanted to
80.be doing. I'm not a warrior. As you said, I'm a techie. That's all
81.I've ever wanted to be. You told me that's what you want to be, too.
82.And you are such a gifted techie! That is what is needed more than
83.anything. So I wish you would leave the attacks to other people and
84.concentrate on helping people with the tech. People inside will find
85.out what you're doing and they will start to realize that they don't
86.have to stand for the out ethics and out tech that is going on inside.
87.They will realize they have an alternative, and they'll start leaving.
88.It has already begun. You've been doing a brilliant job gathering
89.people. It's the best thing that could ever happen. I wish you would
90.keep doing that.
91.
92.So, that is my two cents. I hope you will forgive me for presuming to
93.give you advice. I am sure you are already aware of all of the things
94.I have said and did not need to hear it from me, but I am concerned
95.about you and I guess this is my way of trying to help.
96.
97.Wishing you all the best,
98.
99.Stacy
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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by Smurf » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:52 pm

AnonyMary wrote:Didn't you read Stacy's Dec 2009 email to Mark Rathbun that got posted on the net after his account was hacked?
I remember when this was posted and there were questions whether this was really Stacy posting or an OSA troll. The email brings back memories of events that occurred around the time that Minton became a pawn of the cult after he was threatened... one was Graham Berry's consternation of being falsely accused by Stacy of preparing false declarations against the cult while Stacy sat in his office.. about her signing blank piece of paper and Graham filing in the content of the declaration later.

That stuck in my mind because that is an oft-implemented tactic of OSA-Legal and I signed & initialed many blank pages at the behest of OSAbots Mike Rinder, Ken Long, Charlie Earl, David Butterworth, Aron Mason, Linda Sarkovich, Gayle Armstrong, Rick Moxon, Tim Bowles & Elliot Abselson and others during the CAN days.

One of those "fill in later" blank documents was an OSA attempt to have Graham disbarred from practice.

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by J. Swift » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:14 pm

AnonyMary, I read that letter and was skeptical. Now that Stacy is out on Facebook she can tell the world whether she in fact wrote it.
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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by Gumbythetruth » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:05 pm

J. Swift wrote:AnonyMary, I read that letter and was skeptical. Now that Stacy is out on Facebook she can tell the world whether she in fact wrote it.
Wonder if she is still residing in Atlanta. If one was to go by historical online posting history, I would think SBY has long since walked away from all this madness. Closure in of itself can be a good thing. Makes one think once ones goal have been attained here, critic wise, What will they do with their lives in the future. Get a hobby maybe. :D

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by Smurf » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:36 am

Gumbythetruth wrote:Wonder if she is still residing in Atlanta.
Stacy hasn't lived in Atlanta for years. She & Bob Minton moved to Ireland years ago, where Bob is buried and she still lives. She does own a home in Atlanta, though.

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by AnonyMary » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:27 am

Smurf wrote:
AnonyMary wrote:Didn't you read Stacy's Dec 2009 email to Mark Rathbun that got posted on the net after his account was hacked?
I remember when this was posted and there were questions whether this was really Stacy posting or an OSA troll. The email brings back memories of events that occurred around the time that Minton became a pawn of the cult after he was threatened... one was Graham Berry's consternation of being falsely accused by Stacy of preparing false declarations against the cult while Stacy sat in his office.. about her signing blank piece of paper and Graham filing in the content of the declaration later.

That stuck in my mind because that is an oft-implemented tactic of OSA-Legal and I signed & initialed many blank pages at the behest of OSAbots Mike Rinder, Ken Long, Charlie Earl, David Butterworth, Aron Mason, Linda Sarkovich, Gayle Armstrong, Rick Moxon, Tim Bowles & Elliot Abselson and others during the CAN days.

One of those "fill in later" blank documents was an OSA attempt to have Graham disbarred from practice.
Smurf, I know what you mean but in this case, I know for a fact it was not OSA who hacked his site.
On Dec 28th, his site was hacked. I caught and copied a cached pic of what was there .
It said :

LOOK AT HER YOU CRAZY FUCKS « Moving On Up a Little Higher Page 1

LOOK AT HER YOU CRAZY FUCKS
December 28, 2009 · Leave a Comment
Look at this fucking girl you crazy lunatic moron ass hole cock suckers. Look what your moonbat religion does to a perfectly beautiful, fuckable young woman.

( Then there are Lisa McPherson autopsy pics plastered down the page.

That was done because of the previous post on his blog about Clear, mentioning McPherson:

Uncertain about Clear for eternity
Posted on December 29, 2009
by martyrathbun09| 29 Comments

[..]
Here is the original post in full:

A number of people have come to see me to help sort out arduous, extended mind-games the church has played with them concerning the subject of Clear.

It is quite remarkable that the church has had such success in confusing so many people about a subject that is simplicity itself.

The basic on the chain is the McPherson case. In the summer of 1995 DM personally wrote an extended C/S r-factor to Lisa McPherson that denigrated all Flag tech terminals on her case and falsely declared her as Clear. Apparently having recognized herself she was not experiencing the calm that others had described the state as including, and having lost all faith in anyone beneath the COB himself sorting out what he had declared sorted out, Lisa became increasingly frantic and desperate about what was going on. Within three months Lisa had a psychotic break and died after a seventeen day squirrel Introspection Rundown at Flag.

After McPherson died, Miscavige successfully withheld from even those handling the criminal and civil cases that he in fact had initiated the chain of events leading to her death. Then in his inimitable every-outpoint-is-a-why style of evaluation, DM instituted a number of arbitraries to make the attestation to the state of Clear an engramic episode. He created a pendulum swing whereby it became an increasingly complicated process to attest to Clear.[..]
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/12/

Marty writes another blog piece later that day after the site was hacked.
Daily Archives: December 28, 2009
This blog has been hacked
Posted on December 28, 2009
by martyrathbun09| 18 Comments
This blog has been hacked by the forces of censorship. Those who have been following might find the timing interesting in light of recent direction of the blog, and particularly since draft posts about strategies for 2010 were on deck. Until you see a photo of Amy Scobee and I sitting together (not a photo shop job), do not trust anything you read on this blog as coming from other than those wanting to continue the Dark Ages. Word press service is out for the holidays so it may be several days before we go up again. I’ll be communicating through other means in the interim. Happy Holidays.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/12/28/

On Jan 9, 2010 Marty talks about the hacking here and acknowledges the email that was on the net - from Stacy.
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/1 ... en-hacked/

Moving On Up a Little Higher
Mark "Marty" Rathbun's Place

Moving On Up a Little Higher
Posted on January 9, 2010
by martyrathbun09| 202 Comments
[..]
I knew coming into the struggle that there would be a price to pay for advocating freedom. I knew what we had done from the inside to make life hell for those on the outside exercising their rights to free of expression. Criticism has been leveled against me for not running to law enforcement agencies to report activities that could be construed as criminal. I advised caution against making complaints that were not viable because of statute of limitations and lack of unimpeachable evidence reasons, reasoning that to cry wolf would hurt the chances of justice being served for prosecutable crimes. Quite a few untoward acts have been directed my way recently. That I knew came with the territory and has been treated for the most part like water under the bridge. However, I did not anticipate the lengths the church would go to in order to harm my friends.

As I reported at the end of December, my email and blog were hacked into. The blog was taken down by the invaders. I have just learned that at least one email that was sent to me in early December has been posted on an internet site. These acts constitute felonies under law. During my tenure in the church there was one standard we nearly always adhered to. That was do not commit acts recognized as criminal under existing statutes. I mistakenly estimated that this standard would continued to be adhered to. I was wrong, pure and simple. The appropriate law enforcement officials have been notified and there is an ongoing criminal investigation on the matter. For those who have known me for any length of time, I don’t think there is any doubt about my capacity for sticking with this until justice is served. [..]
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/

Without going into particulars on who, the ARS post about it got the information from 1 of 3 exs who were informed in confidence about the hacking and given a specially locked pastebin to view it. I was one of those 3. Another of the 3 told the ARS poster about it, and that person posted about it, using a different pastebin without a lock so people could read it. The 'informer was pissed off that his leak was violated. It brought the controversy back to old stuff about Minton and LMT conflicts which had nothing to do with the hacking and the purpous of the hacking and it brought some comments doubting the validity of it. During the PM with this person, I was given a copy of another email, from one of Rathbun's close friends, to show that there were other emails. He made his point that he had access to the emails. I went and found the Dec 28th cached copy of Marty's blog and when I saw it, and the previous piece about McPherson, it was clear to me Marty was an idiot to think OSA had anything to do with this. When I saw that Marty later acknowledged the email that did get leaked as coming from his account, why would I not believe it was from Stacy?
J. Swift wrote:AnonyMary, I read that letter and was skeptical. Now that Stacy is out on Facebook she can tell the world whether she in fact wrote it.
Well, I don't use facebook but I looked using one of my kid's accounts and Stacy is on Mark's Facebook friend list. Sure she didn't publicly state she wrote it but she has not, to date, deny the email and Marty didn't either.
Mary McConnell, is my nom de plume. I help expose the Narconon scams, help victims and document the fraud. Google Narconon scam.
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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by J. Swift » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:02 pm

Smurf, you can throw rocks at me all you want because I don't share your need to crucify Mike, Marty, or anyone else. You were a nasty piece of work for OSA. For someone like you to judge others who worked for OSA is the pot calling the kettle black. You pretended to be a Jonestown survivor for OSA, you helped OSA to destroy and bankrupt the Cult Awareness Network, thereby allowing CoS to get all of the names of members and financial contributors on the mailing lists. You left a huge path of damage in your wake, so I personally don't put much stock in your calls to destroy people and attack their efforts until they meet your standards of justice. IMO, someone like you who has been shown compassion should have more compassion for others who once walked the same paths you walked. I just do not understand why you are so judgmental given your own past.

Smurf, we just don't agree about certain things and never will.

I see CoS being broken on the wheel. What matters to me is what is happening in 2011 and how to peacefully accelerate the collapse of CoS by nonviolent means -- particularly by exposing David Miscavige and his corrupt inner circle that includes Monique Yingling and Ken Moxon.

Smurf, why don't you start a new OCMB thread and revisit your life as an OSA spy and how you found your own way out of the Cult? There are many people out there who have never heard your story.

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Re: What happened to Bob Minton -- according to Mike Rinder

Post by Smurf » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:37 pm

J. Swift wrote:Smurf, you can throw rocks at me all you want because I don't share your need to crucify Mike, Marty, or anyone else. . I just do not understand why you are so judgmental given your own past.

Smurf, we just don't agree about certain things and never will.
Whoa, Swift, you need to back up a few steps. First, I don't have a personal vendetta against you and I have acknowledged on OCMB that we are entitled to agree to disagree. Do I think you're an apologist for Mike Rinder & Marty? Yes, I do. Your comments here & on Marty's blog say as much, in my opinion. Do I think you're a disgusting, malevolent cretin for doing so? No. I've never said that. It's not about judging others or judging you for taking the position that you've taken. Fuck, you hear about the Dems & Republicans fighting everyday with differed opines, nasty rhetoric & personal jabs, but you don't hear them getting ~ personally ~ unsheveled by it.

I have 15 or so friends who consider themselves Independent Scientologists and they adore M & M. I don't share their opinion for the two, but they are still my friends. I think you are allowing yourself to get way too emotional & resentful about the discourse taking place with regards to M & M. That discourse is going to continue and you probably are not going to be too happy about the things that don't agree with you. Are you going to accept it that people don't always agree or are you going to get unraveled because people don't?

You are absolutely fucking correct that I perpetrated & participated (not coordinated.. that was your friend Mike Rinder's doing) some very nasty shit to KSW and to prove myself worthy to my terminals & the COB. In the last several years, I have been very open & honest about it and have been an open book. The response I received was mostly positiive with some hateful retorts that I need to kill myself. I was a nasty piece of work & hurt alot of people working for OSA. I did it and I take full responsibility for it, Swift.

I have also testified as a court witness in several cases adverse to Scientology where my activities in OSA were fully investigated, exposed & put on the court record for the whole fucking world to see. When will Mike & Marty be stepping up to the plate, Swift? Just curious.

And I don't, and have never claimed, that I was faultless because I was ordered to do it, and it was all David Miscavige's fault. Google: 'Nuremberg Defense.'

But, unlike Marty & Mike, I don't hide behind a fringe group and make excuses for not going to the authorities & laying it out on the line. Alot of people have posted comments to this effect on Marty's blog only to have them deleted & ignored. Since you want to see the abuses of Scientology end, and the truth to come out, why don't you help M & M come out of the closet & be transparent & accountable for their past, Swift, rather than whine that it's all DM's fault?? Why do you turn a blind eye to their smoke & mirrors?

It's not judging others to demand accountability for past criminality. And it's not wrong to ask M & M to drop all the evasive, smoke & mirrors, to be open and honest about their past. You are free to disagree.

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