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 Post subject: Abortion in the Sea Org -- "Self-Determination?"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:54 pm 
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Posts: 3690
Have a look at this page and decide for yourself.

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/abortions.html

'Coerced' is too gentle a word for what my ex-sea org friend went through. She was forced to have an abortion while in the sea org and was forced to name the father and then forbidden to continue her relationship with him. Neither prospective parent had any say in whether they wanted to have their baby (both did) without risking their sea org rank, the consequences of which they believed would threaten their "eternity." They were told by sadistic "superiors" that their climb up the bridge to total subjugation would be "severly hindered" if she didn't abort their baby, so she did.

Her mother, and his parents - high-up sea-orgers - were told to "handle" them or go to "ethics." In the end members of both families ended up in "ethics conditions" and had to crawl their way back up the slippery slope to automaton status, which took quite a long time and a lot of money (some were publics) because some of them questioned the "authorities." I know more than one ex-sea orger who had an abortion, and the person referred to above was unable (2 miscarriages/2 stillborns) to experience a live birth. There's absolutely no way to prove the termination of the first pregnancy had anything to do with the subsequent tragedies for them, but she, believing in karma, is convinced it did.

The abortion policy seems to be updated regularly (see above link) as if the desire to have children (among those who do) will be squished out of existence by a series of policies once sea orgers are finally sufficiently implanted, but since the original implant didn't take, nor the second, nor the third, they must continue to "update."

Imagine reading this if you were 2 months pregnant at the time and you and your partner were excited about having a child:

FROM NOW UNTIL THERE ARE ADEQUATE FACILITIES AND PERSONNEL FOR THE CCO [Child Care Org] AND THAT ORG IS SET UP TO HANDLE BOTH EXISTING SEA ORG CHILDREN AND FUTURE EXPANSION, THERE ARE TO BE NO MORE BABIES OR PREGNANCIES IN PAC [Pacific Area Command, LA]. - L Ron Hubbard

It was never ever intended there should be an expansion of the CCO. If it had been, there would be an expanded and adequately staffed CCO in every sea org "installation" everywhere on the planet now. Wasn't it clever the word 'abortion' was never committed to paper.[/size:acaa23f71f]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:36 pm 
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Posts: 1256
Girlfriend, I hope Braveheart has married you, you are quite a catch!

Thank you for posting this. I know for a fact this is true. It happened to many Sea Org members I know. I got into a world of trouble for refusing to "handle" some of my juniors who got pregnant. After I was bypassed and others took over the cycles, some had abortions, others went to Class V orgs, and some were offloaded or declared.

Later, I read lists on Kristi or Cerridwens site where I saw some of those unaborted
kids on the lists of new recruits to the Sea Org.

I am not worried about revealing some things, because it happened so often OSA would be hard pressed to figure out who I am.

Quoting from the Admin (green) $cn dictionary, I offer you the LRH definition of "GENOCIDE":

", any of the following acts commited with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group as such: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its destruction in whole or in part; (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and (e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. (LRH ED 28 INT).

Seems to me DM is doing ALL those things.

DM and his "rat pack" are mostly 2nd generation raised in $cn fanatic dipshits.

DM reminds me of the story of Moses in the bible, where King Herod ordered all the male babies born to be killed because one of them might overthrow his crown.

This might someday be of historical interest, as a curiosity item.


[/size:acaa23f71f]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:43 pm 
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I do not mean in any way to discount the pain and suffering of any victims of this cult.

I do hope and believe that LRH and DM and the other Megalomaniacs who think their "contributions" to mankind will earn them a place in history will find themselves a mere footnote in "Ripleys Beleive it or Not" or "Johns' Bathroom Reader".

Sorry for the long sentences, but I really like James Joyce.[/size:acaa23f71f]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:13 pm
Posts: 4088
LRH COMM NETWORK INTERNATIONAL

ED NW _26_ PAC 29 JUNE 1979

ALL PAC EXECS AND CREW


_PREGNANCIES AND BABIES IN PAC_


Our Children are our most valuable future resource. Sea Org
children are the future officers and executives of the Sea Org.
LRH says in SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL "...an interest in children includes
an interest not only in the bearing of the child but in the child's
well being, happiness, mental-state, education and general future...
The whole future of the race depends on its attitude toward children."

Currently the execs of the CCO are working to set it up to take
care of our children but the current set up is inadequate for our
existing Sea Org children and far behind the growth of the baby
population in PAC. It is important that CCO be given the chance to
become set up to ensure our children are cared for optimumly and
trained for their future. We have alot of work to do on the third
dynamic here in PAC and alot to handle and the time and work having
to be expended to cope with the expanding baby population at CCO can
be better directed toward this. Therefore the following rule is
established:

FROM NOW UNTIL THERE ARE ADEQUATE FACILITIES AND PERSONNEL FOR THE
CCO AND THAT ORG IS SET UP TO HANDLE BOTH EXISTING SEA ORG CHILDREN
AND FUTURE EXPANSION, THERE ARE TO BE NO MORE BABIES OR PREGNANCIES
IN PAC.

This rule will stay in effect until CCO has a new building,
has a full complement of the necessary personnel and an established
and functioning HCO which can and does continue to put the org there.
Once these conditions are met, the rule will be lifted.

Any couple violating this rule will be subject to immediate
Fitness Board to determine whether they are sufficiently a facility
differential to their org and the Sea Org to warrant the expense,
manpower and space required to care for their child. If the Fitness
Board finds that they are not, they will be routed out.

Any person recruited for a PAC Org who has children must be
weighed against his value to the SO versus the expense and work of
caring for the child or children. For example, a Class VIII who has
one child would be of sufficient worth to the SO, however, a Basic
Courses Grad with four children would not necessarily be. Before
any person with children is routed in a CSW showing the person's
worth and how the org is going to accomodate for the children at CCO
must be approved through Sr HCO PAC.

This rule is not intended in any way to cut across the Second
Dynamic of PAC Sea Org members nor is it intented that Sea Org members
may not have children. It is only until CCO is set up to care for
and accomodate more children.

This rule applies only to further pregnancies, no SO couple
expecting a child is to be fitness boarded because of that. They
and their org however, should do all possible to assist in the
establishment and expansion of the CCO, as should any couple who
wants to have children. By actually putting CCO there and setting
it up to establish and expand itself, we will make it possible for
the growth and expansion of Sea Org children, those with us now and
those of the future.



Susan Jones
D/LCI PRODUCTION

for and approved by

W/O Bess Sullivan
LRH COMM INTERNATIONAL

Approved by

T/D/CO CMO PAC

for the
BOARDS OF DIRECTORS
of the
CHURCHES OF SCIENTOLOGY
BDCS:JW:BS:SJ:cej


This is a copy of the document as disseminated by Andreas.
So its not an original, nonetheless the underlying tone is worse that Draconian. Mikey correctly identified it as a PAC document.
LRH may have signed off on it however.

Authorship of many documents may be confusing to
non-"ex-Scientologists" as just about everything has an "LRH" on it.
[/size:acaa23f71f]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:10 pm
Posts: 247
Location: Somewhere in England........, That's somewhere in England too!, England
I always thought that if a "policy" was not written by the "founder", then it was "out tech" !!!!!!![/size:acaa23f71f]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:13 pm
Posts: 1256
Umike, you are quoting an old 1979 internal comm signed nowhere by LRH. You bet there was a flap, $cn kids were neglected for all their lives, with ONE hour family time per day, coinciding with the only meal( often rice and beans, and at the very best, worse than McDonalds) that those parents had to offer their children? Did anyone have medical insurance? I didn't. Could you buy a book bag or shoes for your kid? I couldn't.

Add to that the FACT that many parents who brought their kids with them into the Sea Org had in many cases lost their homes and businesses and maxed out their credit and ripped off their relatives and cashed in their retirement funds and their kids college funds. How many Sea org declared banktrupcy to make themselves qualified for the Sea Org?

OK, I will search for and cut and paste the 1986 Issue that forbid any more kids in the Sea Org. While I am doing that, maybe you can take your dogs for a walk or pull those pesky weeds that show up in your garden after every spring rain.

[/size:acaa23f71f]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:24 am 
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Posts: 4088
Good, I'd like to something more current. The document I published is the same document that BG's harvested quote was from. From Mikeys website.[/size:acaa23f71f]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:13 pm
Posts: 1256
Here's some truth about $cientology:

MARY TABAYOYON AFFIDAVIT


CD - 14
26 August 1994


Copyright (C) 1994 Mary Tabayoyon
Redistribution rights granted for non commercial purposes.


GRAHAM E. BERRY, State Bar No. 128503
GORDON J. CALHOUN, State Bar No. 84509
LEWIS, D'AMATO, BRISBOIS & BISGAARD
N. Figueroa Street, Suite 1200
Los Angeles, California 90012
Telephone: (213) 250-1800


Attorneys for Defendants
UWE GEERTZ, PH. D.


UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA


CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY Case No. Cv 91 6426 HLH (Tx)
INTERNATIONAL, a California
non-profit religious DECLARATION OF MARY TABAYOYON
organization, RE: MOTION FOR COSTS
Plaintiff, Date: APRIL 4, 1994
Time: 10:00 a.m.
VS. Courtroom: 7


STEVEN-FISHMAN AND UWE GEERTZ,
Defendants.


DECLARATION OF MARY TABAYOYON


I, Mary Tabayoyon, declare as follows:


<snip>
BEGINNING IN 1986, MEMBERS OF THE SEA ORG WERE FORBIDDEN TO HAVE
ANY MORE CHILDREN IF THEY WERE TO STAY ON POST AND THE HUBBARD
TECHNOLOGY WAS APPLIED TO COERCIVELY PERSUADE US TO HAVE ABORTIONS SO
THAT WE COULD REMAIN ON POST.


7. On September 28, 1986, Gillaume Leserve, the Executive Director
International ("ED Int"), put out an order binding on all Sea Org
members. Within the Sea Org, these binding orders were called Flag
orders. The September 28, 1986 Flag Order No. 3905 forbade Sea Org
members from having any more new children. The reason given by ED Int.
was that the Sea Org simply did not have the time, money and resources
to raise children properly. In the event Sea Org members elected to
disobey this Flag Order, they would be exiled to a non Sea Org
Scientology organization of the Class IV level until the Child reached 6
years of age. Once the unauthorized child achieved 6 years of age, the
parents could return to the Sea Org.


8. On April 3, 1991, an addition to this Flag Order was issued.
Part of that supplement provided that anyone who did get pregnant would
be sent to a non-expanding Class IV Org. The Commanding Officer of
CMOI, Marc Yager, endorsed application of this supplement to all crew at
the base and added to it. It stressed that Sea Org members were the top
echelon of the Sea Org. As such Yager admonished us that we had the
responsibility on our shoulders for the expansion of Scientology and
freeing mankind. Scientology's Senior management determined, we, at
this high level, could not afford the time and resources it would take
to raise children. Having children was found to undermine our
production and our purpose. It became an Ethics matter. An Ethics
matter is an offense against Scientology. An ethics matter arises when
a Scientologist does something which detracts from the spreading of
Scientology. Ethics matters are dealt with through Scientology rituals
administered to those who have "wandered off the straight and narrow".
(See definition of "out ethics", attached as Exhibit 1).


9. Furthermore, Sea Org members would be exiled, would be sent to a
non-Sea Org, lower organization called a Class IV Org to serve as a
staff member. The only concession to our years of devoted service was
the fact that we were entitled to keep our membership in the Sea Org.


11. While at the base, I knew of several instances of staff
getting pregnant and being coerced to get an abortion. Some instances
were relayed to me by the victims themselves and others were relayed to
me by another. In two instances, the couples to keep their child
despite extensive course of ethics method and thus were banished to a
failing Class IV organization. In every instance they had to go through
ethics handling designed to prevent them that it would be far more
advantageous to Scientology and the Sea Org for each of them to have an
abortion. Some of these women went through extensive pressure methods
to convince them to have an abortion. The severity of the Ethics
handling was directly proportional to the prospective mother's desire
and insistence to keep the child. I myself got pregnant in 1993 and
gave up my child due to my greatly misguided obligation and dedication
to the Sea Org.


13. I told the Medical Officer (Martine Collins) of my pregnancy.
She immediately went into action to arrange for my abortion. She told
me, that I would naturally be expected to pay for it myself, since it
was considered Out Ethics to get pregnant. (Out Ethics in Scientology
simply means your reasoning facilities are no longer thinking in a
direction designed to promote Scientology and must be corrected).


14. Medical Office Collins told me to call for the appointment to
have an abortion myself. She told me not to give the address of the
base as my address or to acknowledge I was from the base. She said the
reason for this was because there were too many woman going there from
the base for abortions and it was probably becoming "out PR" (out Public
Relations, which means your public relations have gone bad).


15. The day after I returned from my abortion, I was weak and sore
and had cramps. I proposed a light work load that I felt I could
accomplish. My Senior, Megan Rae, refused this and instead gave me a
target that literally would have taken about many people to accomplish
in one day. I attempted to let her know what an impossible task it was
and that her order must have been a joke. I soon learned that she was
completely serious. My obvious protest on this was met with the barked
threat, "If you use this abortion cycle to dramatize inefficiency and
thus not accomplish your production targets, I will have you comm-eved."
A commev is short for Committee of Evidence. It is one of the severest
Ethics actions you can level at someone.


16. A friend of mine, Betty Hardin, who works in the treasury
division of Golden Era Productions, told me that she used to transport
the pregnant women at the base to Riverside, California for their
abortions. For about a year, she transported women almost weekly to the
Planned Parenthood Center, in Riverside, so that they could have their
abortions and follow up check ups that were needed. She said it just
became routine. Pregnant Sea Org members were sent to the Planned
Parenthood Center to get their abortions. When they returned to the
base they went to Ethics.


18. Betty Hardin said, once formerly pregnant women were back from
having their abortions, they would be sent to Ethics and made to do
"lower conditions". Lower conditions are, from the lowest on up;
Confusion, Treason, Enemy, Doubt, and Liability. Each one of these
lower conditions have an exact set of steps you follow. once you get
through all the steps of all the lower conditions, successfully, and
only the Ethics officer can officially determine if you have gotten
through it correctly, and thus let you go on to the next higher
condition, you are a gung-ho Sea Org member again with new and
revitalized determinism to never make a mistake again that would cause
or threaten any harm to your group.


21. I asked Betty how many women she had actually taken to
Riverside to have their abortions. She didn't want to tell me. From
the way she had been talking, it sounded like quite a few, so I asked,
conservatively, "Was it more than 20?" She waived her arm and said very
emphatically, "Oh yes!"


22. Betty also told me how she finally flat out refused to be the
driver anymore and it was getting to be quite an embarrassment as there
were often anti-abortionists petitioning going on in front of the
Planned Parenthood center and they kept seeing her bringing woman to get
abortions.


24. I can see now that the act of getting my abortion along with
the harsh treatment from my seniors afterwards, began jolting me out of
the indoctrinated state of blind dedication to the Sea Org. Another
thing that jolted me was, just before going back to the Riverside
Planned Parenthood, for a check up, 2 weeks after my abortion, I was
getting administered to me something called, False Data Stripping. This
action was opening my eyes to some real craziness that were going on at
the Base, to which I had previously cast a blind eye. The biggest
craziness being the fact that, Miscavige, the highest leader in
Scientology, was regularly (about once a month or so) angrily yelling at
us in staff meetings about how inept and incompetent and inefficient we
all were. Sometimes he would even say, "WOG's could do better." (WOG
is a derogatory term used in the Sea org to mean someone in the outside
world who probably hasn't even heard of Scientology.)



[/size:acaa23f71f]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 1:12 am
Posts: 206
Location: usa
Hello, all. Being in the Sea Organization at the FLO for 17 years, I know of many abortions.

I have to give some additional information, first:

When I got to the base in 1985 in November, I was assigned to cleaning in the CEO (where the children were). At that time, Sea Org Members were allowed to have children.

The conditions there were appalling! There were babies in a room where the youngest ones were that were not being supervised. They were all between about 6 months and a year and a half. There were about 12 of them. They were all in cribs with no blankets (if I remember correctly) and were dirty and there was no adult in the room! They were not playing together or learning as babies and toddlers should be.

Then the 3 and 4 and 5 year olds were just running amuck and, I tell you, they were the worst behaved children I had ever come across! I came into the Sea Org as a "WOG" and I was shocked at the conditions and the way these children were such brats (hate to use that word) and they would just run around and terrorize the place all day.

They also ate in awful conditions and the food looked none too good, either.

None of these babies were breastfed, of course, because which Sea Org mother would have time (I breastfed my child who I had a year and a half ago). They were fed barley formula. I don't even think it had milk in it, which babies need. It was an LRH formula written up by him. But, is it really sufficient for what babies need?

Anyway, a year later (or less) SO members were told if they had children, they would be sent to Class IV (V) orgs.

Then later were told they would have to leave (in the 90's).

I didn't actually know of many people that got pregnant, but one of my associates did. She was already the mother of 4 children. She got pregnant if the wind blew just the right way, apparently. She told me that she would have to have an abortion and was persuaded to do so.

She kept coming to me as a friend about this before she had the abortion and wanted to get my opinion, which I was unwilling to give, because I disagreed with abortion.

She finally approached me one more time and I flat-out told her (and I was in tears with upset about her wanting to get an abortion) that I didn't agree and that abortion was murder in my eyes and I don't think LRH would support having an abortion from everything that I have read.

She got flustered and was crying, too but said she was going to do it anyway because she didn't want to leave. So, she got it and I was very upset about this.

I know of 3 or 4 other people that were made to get abortions or were so scared of leaving that's what they did.

I myself never got pregnant while I was there because I felt that reduced the problem.

Anyway, I don't disagree with the rule of having no children there because the conditions for the children were literally abuse and neglect and the only time they got to see their parents was at the end of the night when they were picked up (and the kids were asleep). It was awful for the children and the parents.

Then sometime in the late 80's or so, someone cancelled family time (not LRH), which LRH had set up intending for families to have some time together. Then it was even worse for the kids.

Education levels of these children were deplorable as well.

Ann Marie[/size:acaa23f71f]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:42 pm 
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Posts: 8106
Location: Cyberspace
It's just proof of the hypocrisy of the organization. Having an abortion is a sec check item which implies that it's a no no. So that's just proof that they're more interested in perpetuating a cult than in propagating philosophy, moral stance, etc.

Disgusting.[/size:acaa23f71f]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:13 pm
Posts: 1256
Anne Marie, I have spoken to some Ex Sea Org who know you, and they send you their very best regards. If you are still in the Bay Area, there are alot of wonderful critics you might hook up with.

Your description of the way children were treated in the Sea Org is spot on.

Have you read Mary Taboyonon's affadavit about abortions in the Sea Org? I too know many women who were coerced to have abortions, being pregnant was considered out ethics, and couples were put through ethics handlings and sec checks until they "cognited" that the "ethical" thing to do was to go through with the abortion.

Another related thing I know is that many people had vasectomies or tubal ligations in order to comply with the no pregnancies or babies in the SO rule of 1986. A perfect case of a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I still have dreams of the family we wanted and never had. I am sure this is even harder for younger people who get out of the SO and want to start over in the real world. At least I already had some children.

Ann Marie, my very best wishes to you!



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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:34 am 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 1:12 am
Posts: 206
Location: usa
Dear Ladybird, Hey, awesome to know there are some of my friends out there. You know me, too, don't you??
Yes, I heard about vasetomies and tubes tied, too. In fact, I was going to do it myself!!! Thank God I didn't!
Hey, how do I let the people who know me where to contact me and how you can contact me?
I'm not in the Bay Area now -- I was visiting there because my brother lives there.
I don't want to say which city I'm in now, if you don't mind.
I was living in Sacramento until a couple of months ago.
Love,
Ann Marie[/size:acaa23f71f]

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 3:22 am 
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Posts: 1256
Anne Marie, call your favorite SP. There are vias, much like the underground railroad. I love the Harriet Tubman quote: "I freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more if only they knew they were slaves."

As I am sure you know, ex SO are a paranoid lot.
I just want you know we are here cheering for you, and you have lots of friends out here who are so happy you have escaped, and understand what you have been through. (Does your son have red hair, too?)

Sometime soon we will have to have a great big SP reunion. I will see you there. Meanwhile, keep up the good work!

Love, Ladybird[/size:acaa23f71f]


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 5:06 pm 
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Posts: 206
Location: usa
Dear Ladybird, All right, thanks. My favorite SP? You mean Arnie? But he was never even declared!! (much to his shigrin)
I'm not paranoid, but maybe a should be....
Anyway, the problem is that I can't even recall all of those people who are now out -- you know, off the top of my head. But, I would certainly know them if I heard their names.
Yes, I would love to have an SP reunion.
You DO KNOW ME!!
Yes, my son sort of has red hair -- it's amber brown and he has the biggest brown eyes you ever saw and the longest eyelashes in the world.
Love,
Ann Marie[/size:acaa23f71f]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:50 pm 
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Posts: 206
Location: usa
Hey, Ladybird-- Where are you?[/size:acaa23f71f]

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