To Whom It may Concern :

I live in San Diego CA . I have what you would call a 'mental health' history .. One of this cities biggest shames and fallacies is the fact that people with chemical imbalances and mental 'disorders' are either ignored or left to fend for themselves .No one cares or tries to understand their needs .

To say that every one of the people I have met with has either been driven to or merely has to be programmed into a certain mental state is a great mistake,

I must admit, the use in teenagers and pre-teens of medication and any form of 'quick fix can be an error when true intervention and human caring can make a greater diffrence instead . There is no doubt we should question weather we may in fact be not only over-medicating but simply neglecting some of our children and some adults true issues .

However, both myself and other human beings experience things that you have yet to and possibly can not understand or address ,

Please, have the room to go beyond your narrow ways and what you have been TOLD to think and say to look at reality, however much beyond mans TOTAL control . / You may know a great deal about the human psyche and perhaps have made it a personal interest to understand the workings of the human mind and its triggers .

However, please try to understand . I have personally witnessed the fact that there are SEVERE mental imbalances . Grown men who crawl on all fours , hit themselves, scream and are otherwise completely dellusional. Absolutely not only beyond any 'teachings' or 'talking to'
but completely outside of reality and reason ,
I have seen these same people gain as much control as possible under medication . They even apologise in embarrasment or won't even believe what they where like . I have seen some of these people who I truly tried to 'reason' with and where beyond anyhthing you would want to ever suffer through or even witness become as lucid as I could imagine them becoming and start showering, paying rent, shopping and speaking to me in conversation .

There are people out there with severe natural born medical malfunctions of the mind . (Not all wich are understood, merely imagined or brought upon by 'outside' influence. Sad but true . )

You are advocating to stop the very little hope and progress I have seen for such people in society , What little aid these unaccepted and usually very POOR people will EVER receive
to help them help themselves .

It truly scares and hurts me to think people may either stop taking the medications ( though not perfect) wich help them funtion or ignore what progress has been made for what is obviously in some cases a severe and serious problem, All because of you, your peers and your public statements and influence ,

Sir, you may devestate lives that not only may have some hope but convince people who have made progress to simply regress . Your public remarks and influence may cause great harm to people who are supporting or making real progress with such a struggle ,

As 'movie stars ' you posses great talent, intelligence and physical charm .Not everyone does , There is room for improvement in every field of science and medicine .Not all mental problems are merely personal "issues". Believe it or not, some people need and have been relieved of great suffering and confusion with what little aid and medication they may receive.

I sirs, am one of them . .

You want to know something better then drugs?

Try to go outside for atleast 2 hours a day and get a bit of exercise and go out and try to make yourself a better person I guarantee if more people GOT OUTSIDE an exercised and did something other then sitting around THEY WOULD GET BETTER THEN SITTING AROUND ON DRUGS END OF THE DISCUSSION

GO OUTSIDE EXERCISE TALK TO FRIENDS hell take vitamins EAT healthy and you will get better people go nuts because they stop exercising they stop interacting with other ppl and medicine is never going to fix this EVER only you can vitamins can really keep your body and mind in shape you don't need drugs NOBODY does

And NO You aren't better becuz of taking drugs

seriously GO OUTSIDE take a walk ride a bike for about 2 hours outside in the sun YOU WILL FEEL SO MUCH BETTEr then being on drugs trust me on this nothing can dispute it and you seriously need to get off you're drugs if you're still on them they are wrecking you're life not helpin it

STFU, you could be the poster child for ignorance about mental health issues.

John Smith: Thank you for sharing your story.

STFU: Exercise, eat right, and take my vitamins? Do you find it ironic that you sound just like an ad for One-a-Day, manufactured by Bayer, a pharmaceutical company?

Sure, exercise and a healthy diet are good things. But I agree with John Smith and the majority of the outside world: Medications can save, and for anyone to declare otherwise is irresponsible and malicious.

STFU, walking and taking vitamins will do nothing for the mentally ill except get them fresh air, give them some vitamins, and leave them mentally ill. Damaged neurons, synaptic problems, these are hardware/software problems that are not amenable to vitamins and exercise.

Scn makes a big deal about putting people in PT with locationals as if that were remarkable. Cruise thinks it is remarkable and yet he sits on Oprah with his mouth agape in LaLaLand gushing over being in love and sofa-jumping.

If that is PT to a Scientologist, I'll pass. Thanks. I'm good here with my wog PT.

People notice things all day in PT. The London bombers were in PT as were the 911 killers. Both groups of assassins had to be at exact places at exact times, so the argument that PT means something or is therapeutic against mentall illness is absurd.

Being in PT simply means one is in PT.

To have "free attention" is an ancient Buddhist teaching that Hubbard borrowed and called "attention units" along with his other adaptations of earlier teachings.

*****

Purly Gerl is exactly correct that medicines can help the mentally ill.

When Scn uses pseudoscience - which is the only science it has ever known and will ever know -- to attack psychiatry it only makes itself look massively stupid, and I am talking Stone Age stupid as in, "Has no opposable thumbs and breathes thru its mouth" stupid.

And yet we know that Scientologists, as individuals, are not stupid. So all we can do is t give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are towing the party line in the complete absence of facts. STFU, go read about real psychiatry and not the Frankenstein propaganda Scientology has created. There is a huge gap between what you are being told and what is the truth.

Go to a homeless shelter and ask the Director to show you someone whom they know is mentally ill. Actually work with a mentally ill person and see if all your vaunted tech makes any difference whatsoever. Either Scientology works or it doesn't and so you have to find out if a touch assist or a locational does anything. This would be a good way to see what happens with LRH Tech in real life with a mentally ill person.

Go work with someone who has been diagnosed as having a mental illness sufficient to make them homeless and utterly disoriented. Go work with a person like that and then come back here and talk to us on an experiential basis as opposed to talking in the abstract.

*****

Look, STFU, you don't have to believe in psychiatry, you never have to believe in psychiatry, and you can still leave Scientology.

It is true: The Wog World does not medicate everyone. Only the few who need medication get it and many people who need it don't for reasons Purly Gerl sadly descrived.

There is no plot, STFU. None of us out here want to be on medication either unless it is absolutely necessary.

Do you think people, other than drug addicts, like to be medicated? No, they don't. People don't like to be medicated. That is a normal human response: I don't want to take medicine unless it is the very last option after I have done everything else.

****

BTW, STFU, an unrelated personal question as we are in ARC: How deeply in debt are you to Scientology?

Can you flow comm to me -- or whatever it is you guys call talking to other people -- or would talking to me cause a problem on your next sec check?

There are no sec checks out here where the rest of us live, so you can talk to anyone here safely and express any idea or thought safely. Can you do that in Scientology?

"Try to go outside for atleast 2 hours a day and get a bit of exercise and go out and try to make yourself a better person I guarantee if more people GOT OUTSIDE an exercised and did something other then sitting around THEY WOULD GET BETTER THEN SITTING AROUND ON DRUGS END OF THE DISCUSSION"

Many mentally ill are homeless who live outdoors. They have no cars so they get plenty of exercise.
Your simplistic solution to mental illness is based in ignorance.

Wow! Great riposte HM. The homeless are outside all day because, by definition, homelessness means one is, er, outside all day and night.

You are right, HM: If the homeless are outside for many hours, as in 24/7/365 on foot pushing a shopping cart, they should be at least according to STFU's logic, free of mental illness, except for that part which the vitamins handle.

STFU, what now?

Will Scn give Dianazene to the homeless in order to complete the CCHR regimen for restoration of complete sanity? Certainly this sort of miracle will cause the Orgs to boom once again, this as opposed to running on fumes due to failed ideas and failed leadership.

Scientology has had 50 years to prove itself and everyone is still waiting for the OT's to work their miracles.

They haven't even knocked a hat off anyone's head as LRH bragged. Given that OT is a fantasy, what happens next STFU?



(Message edited by kent on July 17, 2005)

The homeless are outside all through the hot summers sweating like they are in a sauna.

To STFU and those concerned:

I agree as do any psychologist I know of that exercise and nutrition are an important part of a healthy life . To say I do not grasp this concept would be naive and underestimating the complexities of these situations .

The ability to live a 'normal' active life and be an productive member of society is certainly one I strive for and understand . However, certain things may be taken for granted . It sometimes becomes increasingly difficult for myself and people I have met with similar problems to go about daily life routines .

A 'chemical imbalance' or similar diagnosis is very diffucult for people to either understand or deal with .
Let me put it bluntly . I would not want to be around children (or anyone else for that matter) when I perceive every whisper as
" Thats's him...we're going to kill him." Or similar things . At times the nervousness ,paranoia and delusions seem completely realistic and plausible . That is what my mind is telling me is happening . Try as I may to consiously understand my predicament . In as far as socially interacting, it should be a given that it is very difficult if not impossible . This, mind you, is in a situation where no aggrevation or stess has even been introduced . No outside stress factors are at play. Things should be normal. Something is wrong.

"Going for a jog and eating well..." became secondary in my complications with everyday life .I kept ignoring and denying the real issues of the mental condition I may have or any true chemical imbalances and the complications they presented in my life . In my attempt to understand my situation and better myself I , with help from loved ones, turned to medication and some psychiatry . Eventually I found myself being able to cope with situations in a much more lucid and capable manner . There is no magic bullet, I completely agree with that . However, once I became more balanced with time and medication I started to have the ability to see clearly ( without the horrifying random triggers my mind was making ) I was able to do the things that would expand my well being from there . The FREEDOM to socialise, volunteer, read a good book,( even L Ron Hubbard)or go on trips was granted to me by this science. Medication did not turn me into a zombie OR solve all of my problems. I still have ,as anyone, much personal improvement and interspection in life . However, these decitions I make are without this 'handicap' limiting me, misguiding me and blocking my way.

I find it saddening and am even angered by the fact that people who are looked up to, especially by young people, have decided to take something like COS and not only present it as a spiritual belief system and not only as a possible alternative way to better yourself or others
but as a complete REPLACEMENT for all other alternatives .

People with serious issues who may be helped tremendously ( not all) to live a normal happy life will throw that chance away . COS will not be there when they stop showering, talk to themselves , hurt themselves , use street drugs .

I want to be a Top Gun too and I am ( through the help of medication, true grit and some intervention) working twards my goals and dreams ... you are quite possibly going to destroy lives .

All for what !?? WHy?

So MAYBE someday...if you DO take over all established medical and social-aid and REPLACE it...you can say.. with a smug look of satisfaction....

" SEE...I WAS RIGHT! "



( are you ?)
- John Smith -

HM,

You posted to STFU;

Your simplistic solution to mental illness is based in ignorance.

No, Its based upon a galactic overlord by the name of "Zenu" who implanted billions of thetans in bodies by exploding nuclear bombs in volcanoes 75 million years ago.

When we all sweat out that frozen glycol and alcohol used to entraps us all , in a purif, our chemical balance will be restored.

After all, this is the real cause as to what mental illness is all about!

Beyond Horizons.

You have pictured the very definition of disinformation.

Take a statement, Repeat the statement but then add the posibility that someting else (and oposite to the statement) migt explain it.

You work just by the book.