Nichole Kidman : I've lost my kids to Scientology

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tom_
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Post by tom_ » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:53 am

lulu_belle wrote:I hate to say it.

I'm sure I will deeply regret saying.

I probably shouldn't say it.

But I am actually agreeing with InitialTC here.

(Pig just zoomed by my window.)

Kidman's whole "baring her soul" thing in Vanity Fair here.

Do you have any idea how many interviews this chick has done in Vanity Fair over the last 7 or more years?

During which time Cruise has had those kids and she never said a freakin' word about it?

Or about Scientology?

Except for an occasional "I will always love Tom."

WTF???

Why now?

It's a really good question.
Perhaps some answers are....

1) Better late than never!

2) Waking up from a cult fog like
$cn induces, is not an overnight event. It takes time.

3) She's finally gets it how terribly painful the cult's disconnection policy can be.

4) She sees the severe programming the kids are exhibiting from their
time in $cn camps and schools in Oregon, and wants to fight it.

5) She's finally feed up with Cruise's wacked out beliefs

6) She's really ~pissed~ now.

I give Nichole credit for speaking out. Even if it seems not timely to some. It's far more respectable IMO than anonymous folks yammering and hammering from behind keyboards in cyberspace.

<<<>>>

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Re: Nicole, Scientology and getting Tom some tail

Post by SuzanneMarie » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:47 am

blownforgood wrote:The "Nicole Situation" is killing me. Here is what has led up until now.
This whole thing is about Nicole & Tom, but in order to get the whole picture there is an insane amount of back story. (SNIP)

Nicole and Tom get married in Colorado and who attends the wedding? Dave Miscavige and Greg Wilhere.

1993
Years and several Int Base visits would go by and finally Tom would arrive at OT 3. Nicole would never get past a few basic courses. This is when things would get ugly. Tom gets to OT 3 and disappears into his own world again. Tom basically was like "WTF???????" years of this shit and now you are telling me that this whole thing is about fucking space aliens?!?!?!?!
Even though he could not tell Nicole about the space aliens, she was very content to walk away from the Scienos and was basically doing whatever Tom wanted her to.

Tom and Dave had a huge argument when Dave tried to shove some KSW shit down Tom's throat, Tom said that he was going to taking a break. Ever wonder how he ended up doing so many movies that were like "how could he do that movie is he is supposedly a Scientologist?" well, he wasn't, he decided that Scientology was a bunch of crap. He was going to turn his back on Dave and his cronies. Greg was nuked for screwing the Tom project up and would shortly after be sent off to the Freewinds to watch Marty Rathburn that had just blown the Base and was very unstable. They would however, both come into play years later.

For most, the Tom Cruise project had run its course and ended up on the rocks.

Years would go by and nothing on Tom was heard. He just stopped being a Scientologist.

Now most people knew that Tom could not have kids when he was married to Mimi Rogers. They were not married that long, but one of the "reasons" why Tom divorced her was that she could not have children and he wanted to start a family.

Well, when he Nicole had tried for many years, it appeared that it was him who could not have kids as Nicole was not getting pregnant either. Sure enough tests proved this to be the case. Adoption would be the only way.

2001:

So now we fast forward to the moment that turned it all around and for the most part is the exact moment when Scientology would do itself in without even knowing it. Years had passed since Tom had even spoken with anyone about Scientology or even been anywhere near the subject.

Several people had been installed within Tom's staff and personal infrastructure so that the Church would be able to keep tabs on what was happening with him and know when they would be able to make their move to get him back. That moment had come.

Nicole had been shooting Moulin Rouge and somehow she managed to get more than a few scenes shot. She was pregnant! But Tom cannot have kids - right? So again here is Tom saying WTF? Bitch!!!

Dave gets the Nicole intel and works fast. Marty Rathburn is sent in to meet up with Tom and feed him a whole story about how Nicole was his SP and that she was ruining his life and basically a total ho bag. Of course Tom agrees with this under the circumstances. Marty offers to take Tom is session and do some repair auditing and get him patched up.

Before you know it, Tom is divorcing Nicole and all out of nowhere he completes OT 4 with Marty auditing him! Now the church and Int Base staff are saying WTF? Where has he been the last 8 years? All of the sudden he is a Scientologist and Nicole is out of there? How? Why? Bizarre, but okay if he's back, he's back. (SNIP)... and Tom cannot have kids with Nicole whose pregnancy was reason for their divorce,
then how does he manage to get Katie Holmes pregnant 2 hours into their relationship?????

Maybe the kid that Nicole was carrying was Tom's!!! But she was really sleeping around and could not deny it. Either way, all the stress killed the baby and we will never know.

So that brings us to the current situation. Is Nicole up in arms because the kids are basically turning into Scientologists anyway. What does she have to lose?

And where the hell did Suri come from? That is a damn good question.
I bet you would like to know.

I will save that for another post.

Until next time...

BFG
Boy, I can't wait. Which tabloid will you mine for 'inside info' this time?

According to Kidman's Vanity Fair interview, her miscarriage occurred early in her marriage to Cruise. So it would not have been the reason for her divorce from him, ten years later.

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Post by Crunchy » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:54 am

I think NK's comments in the article were a warning for Scientology to back off.

I'm kinda surprised to hear people comment that she is a bad mother for allowing herself to be disconnected by her Scientlologist children. Is that how you feel about other people who have had their families torn apart by the cult? That they are bad for letting it happen? Is that what you said to Ida, et al?

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Post by 'Alert' » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:02 am

SueZannemaire wrote: Boy, I can't wait. Which tabloid will you mine for 'inside info' this time?

By the way, your timeline has Cruise doing OT 4 after he broke up with Kidman. Wachter's site says Cruise attested to OT 5 in 2002.
Who writes your script SM?

You made the above statement and then retract it by changing your post?

According to Kristi's website:
Information about Tom Cruise
Tom Cruise is one of Scientology's most famous celebrity members. However, only one completion for Cruise appears in the Scientology publications summarized in my database - and it's listed under his birth name, Tom Mapother, not his stage name. According to a 2004 story in International Scientology News, though, he has reached the upper levels of Scientology auditing - he has completed OT VI (Operating Thetan level 6) and is continuing toward the highest levels available.
If someone's got money, the only timeframe to get 'up the brdige' is the time it takes to write a cheque or swipe the Platinum Card you dolt.

Gee 30 days abscent and youve returned to do what pitbull did so well, NOT!



Thanks BFG, for filling in few blanks. Your arrival is yet again timely.

Cruise chose his cult, let him wallow in its impending downfall.
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

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Post by 'Alert' » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:04 am

Crunchy wrote:I think NK's comments in the article were a warning for Scientology to back off.

I'm kinda surprised to hear people comment that she is a bad mother for allowing herself to be disconnected by her Scientlologist children. Is that how you feel about other people who have had their families torn apart by the cult? That they are bad for letting it happen? Is that what you said to Ida, et al?
PRECISELY!!
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

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Post by lulu_belle » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:28 am

Alert,

Tell us what you know.

We're listening.

I am, anyway.
"Is leaving Scientology the new black?"

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Post by BTs2Free » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:11 am

SuzanneMarie's timing back to this message board is very interesting folks - not only with the subject matter at hand, but the fact that BFG is returning back to the boards and she's the first one to try to discredit him. OSA ops become very obvious after a while.

If she had done her homework on BFG's earlier, very valuable, and extremely accurate postings about things that have happened at Scientology upper management, as well as to things that have been released from upper management before we even knew about it - i.e. the re-edited, re-released Scientology library, the DM beatings, as well as the whereabouts of the declared suppresive heads of Scientology, the Super Power bldg., et al, she would have noticed that BFG has some very powerflul insider information about the Cult that has been verified by other ex-Int staffers such as myself and others.

In fact, here's my own knowledge from experience about TC and Nic at Gold (not to be confused with Nic at Nite - jk). Yes, TC was coming up to Gold in the early 90's. He was doing his basic courses in the "Celebrity" course room - and yes, Al Mase was his supervisor through the basic courses and his Academy Levels. I believe he only got through Level 4. I can be corrected on that if wrong. During this training/brainwashing period, near the beginning is when Nic started coming up to Gold with Tom as well. Just like a scene from "Far and Away" these two, while they were having a romantic time at a human prison encampment, there were staff slaving away (such as myself and many others) to get things prepared for them so everything would be perfect. This included basically planting a whole freakin "House on the Prairie" type setting for them. DM was hard to please and always had a great way of making you feel completely appreciated for the work you had done - NOT! One girl (and I forget what her name was, possibly BFG remembers) but she was sent to the decks for weeks for just trying to talk to TC. I bet TC didn't even know that someone was actually sent away to "gulag" like conditions, interrogations and heavy labor work for this "action." And if he did know, he's playing a sick game.

As well, BFG mentions the flood that practically destroyed the G Units (the posh bungalow's that we slaved on to renovate for Tom) and DM assigned the entire base a condition if Confusion (the lowest ethics condition). After this began the worst decade of my life. You have no idea what the conditions were like there for years after that happened. Well, it never got better after that, I'll put it that way. I guess DM was affraid to assign God a condition of Confusion, so he blamed us. In Scientology thete is a policy called "The WHY is God" which carries a massage that a flap or a Hill 10 is created by someone and it is never "God". DM follows this policy fairly closely obviously, it suits his evil purposes.

After TC was recovered by Greg Wilhere, after the OT III incident, Tom started coming to the base a lot more.

I believe this was right before the filming of "Interview with a Vampire" because Tom rented a nearby movie theater for the entire base to go see the movie. And Tom, if you read this, and I HIGHLY doubt it, that was one of the last base outings EVER - this from all accounts.

Tom became way more visible at the base after his IAS award. He was practically an honorary SO member and other SO members had to respond to and address him as Mr. Cruise. What an arrogant ass! DM enforced this BTW. If DM had deemed it that anyone had offended Mr. Cruise in any way, they were seen by Ethics very rapidly, which meant interrogation, lower condition assignments, etc...

Thanks Tom for the memories.

Also SM, you never answered any of our questions about XENU. Return to that thread and give us your opinion on the authenticity of the OT III documentation.

BTs2Free
Hammering out of existence incorrect technology would include $cientology itself!

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Post by Braveheart's Girlfriend » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:45 am

BFG, you wrote in the 1993 section of your post:
1993
Years and several Int Base visits would go by and finally Tom would arrive at OT 3. Nicole would never get past a few basic courses. This is when things would get ugly. Tom gets to OT 3 and disappears into his own world again. Tom basically was like "WTF???????" years of this shit and now you are telling me that this whole thing is about fucking space aliens?!?!?!?!
Even though he could not tell Nicole about the space aliens, she was very content to walk away from the Scienos and was basically doing whatever Tom wanted her to.

Tom and Dave had a huge argument when Dave tried to shove some KSW shit down Tom's throat, Tom said that he was going to taking a break. Ever wonder how he ended up doing so many movies that were like "how could he do that movie is he is supposedly a Scientologist?" well, he wasn't, he decided that Scientology was a bunch of crap. He was going to turn his back on Dave and his cronies. Greg was nuked for screwing the Tom project up and would shortly after be sent off to the Freewinds to watch Marty Rathburn that had just blown the Base and was very unstable. They would however, both come into play years later.

For most, the Tom Cruise project had run its course and ended up on the rocks.

Years would go by and nothing on Tom was heard. He just stopped being a Scientologist.
WOW!

So Tom's lying here to Katie Couric in their interview during PR for The Last Samurai:

"Cruise: 'Absolutely, you’re wrong. And I can tell you that my personal experience with it, you know, I’ve been a Scientologist for going on, I guess 17 years. And it’s extraordinary, it’s extraordinary. And you know, you always have to look at someone who criticizes you, you have to look at them and say, okay, so? Who is that person? Why? What do they know? And I can tell you, you’re sitting in front of a Scientologist who knows. And I can tell you from my personal experience it’s been extraordinary for me. I wouldn’t be here where I am today without, you know, those things to help me out.'"

That's really interesting. So before the split, in the time he and Nicole had Conner and Bella, they were non-Scientology parents together, with Tom doing a lot of movies, and Nicole being the primary parent at home with the nannies. Was she a "good mother" then? Dunno. Does she have the opportunity to be a good mother now? I have no idea, frankly.

In the 2001 section of your post, you wrote:
Tom actually ended up dating a Spanish gal he met in Spain while opening up a new org there with Dave. She was a Spanish actress and a total fox. This was kept so hush hush, nobody had even noticed her on the Tom Cruise map. Good thing because when the church decided to dig up some info on the girl, turns out she had a bit of a shady past, a bit of girl on girl action, some soft core porn stuff and basically she would not live up to the microscopic scrutiny that the world would put her under as a Scientologist and Tom Cruise's new gal pal. She was outta' there!
Tom did a lot more than just "date" Penelope Cruz, and I'm guessing you meant it was kept hush hush from Int base Scientologists? Tom and Penelope Cruz's relationship lasted 3 years, from 2001 - 2004, and was very public. I remember reading the press on their relationship, and Tom, the "better parent" if you read most people in several forums, included Penelope in his homelife with his children. They were often pictured together with the kids. Yes! A new Mommy. Was she living with him and the children in L.A.? I don't know, but she may as well have been. I remember the big media whoha when she spent time living with him and the kids during part of the filming of Samurai in New Zealand. I'm not getting "the who" from whom Tom and Cruz's relationship was kept hush hush in your quoted paragraph above. Can you please fill me in on that? Meanwhile, Nicole was not constantly exposing her children to the few men she had relationships with pre-Urban.

and
Well, Tom needed a girl and between Dave Miscavige and him, they were not coming up with anything workable, so -- time to bring in the expert. Greg Wilhere was brought in for this job again. He had done it before, he just needed to qualify the girl a bit better this time
.

Yeah, good job he did, too. Katie the Zombie Bride, the girl who lets him yank her around by the wrist and buys into Scientology 15 minutes after they meet, simultaneously getting pregnant with Hubbard's moonchild. BAAAHA! (I shouldn't say that, couldn't help it, it just slipped out..)

Tom also said in that Couric interview - and this is after the famous "Nic knows why" comment re their breakup:

"Cruise: 'I’ve always loved Nick. And I always will. Always. And, you know, that will never change, the times that we’ve had together. And I’ve always just wanted her to be happy. And enjoy her life and we’re in a great place right now. And that’s what I want. I want her to be happy.'"

I'm guessing that "great place" was under his and Miscavige's thumbs. I'm guessing Alert is right about the beans that could be spilled if certain people in eastern Australia ever talk. And I'm not too sure what demonizing Keith Urban accomplishes. Or equating Nicole's ability to parent children with her choices in men. The one doesn' necessarily follow the other. Nicole doesn't just have herself to think about if she tells her story. There are her children and her family in Australia.

Hopefully Nicole's found or will find some way to get out from under that CoS-gagged position.

[All TC's women have played second fiddle to his career whether they had much to do with Scientology or not.]
http://alley.ethercat.com/door/

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Post by I'mglib » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:01 am

SM said:
According to Kidman's Vanity Fair interview, her miscarriage occurred early in her marriage to Cruise. So it would not have been the reason for her divorce from him, ten years later.
Actually, the article said she had two miscarriages...one at the beginning and one at the end of her marriage.

Also, Crunchy, I don't think she's a 'bad mother' for being forced to disconnect. First of all, I don't think she has been disconnected. She does still see her kids, but over and over in the article it says they live in LA and they like it there. I just can't fathom why you wouldn't at least own a house where your kids live, while they're being brainwashed by their COS father. I'd want to stay as close as possible and let them know they could come to me if they wanted to move. I'd have as normal a house as possible with Christmas and family etc etc and I wouldn't say a word about COS, but I'd have a happy healthy home and hopefully they'd see the contrast and choose my home when they were old enough.

She obviously knows how to deal with Scn. She just keeps her mouth shut, which is why she said, "I don't want to be the one to talk about Scientology." She only talks nicey nicey about Tom, too. So there is no disconnection.

I dunno. I'm a mom, I wouldn't want to be that far away from my kids. I'd see them as much as possible, and from what I can tell she could see her kids a lot more. I don't think anyone is stopping her at this point.

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Post by BTs2Free » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:01 am

Penelope Cruz also did some basic courses in Scientology however, did not continue.
Hammering out of existence incorrect technology would include $cientology itself!

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Post by SuzanneMarie » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:03 am

BTs2Free wrote:SuzanneMarie's timing back to this message board is very interesting folks - not only with the subject matter at hand, but the fact that BFG is returning back to the boards and she's the first one to try to discredit him. OSA ops become very obvious after a while.

(Snip self-serving blather)
Also SM, you never answered any of our questions about XENU. Return to that thread and give us your opinion on the authenticity of the OT III documentation.

BTs2Free
No.

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Post by SuzanneMarie » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:15 am

I'mglib wrote:SM said:
According to Kidman's Vanity Fair interview, her miscarriage occurred early in her marriage to Cruise. So it would not have been the reason for her divorce from him, ten years later.
Actually, the article said she had two miscarriages...one at the beginning and one at the end of her marriage.

Also, Crunchy, I don't think she's a 'bad mother' for being forced to disconnect. First of all, I don't think she has been disconnected. She does still see her kids, but over and over in the article it says they live in LA and they like it there. I just can't fathom why you wouldn't at least own a house where your kids live, while they're being brainwashed by their COS father. I'd want to stay as close as possible and let them know they could come to me if they wanted to move. I'd have as normal a house as possible with Christmas and family etc etc and I wouldn't say a word about COS, but I'd have a happy healthy home and hopefully they'd see the contrast and choose my home when they were old enough.

She obviously knows how to deal with Scn. She just keeps her mouth shut, which is why she said, "I don't want to be the one to talk about Scientology." She only talks nicey nicey about Tom, too. So there is no disconnection.

I dunno. I'm a mom, I wouldn't want to be that far away from my kids. I'd see them as much as possible, and from what I can tell she could see her kids a lot more. I don't think anyone is stopping her at this point.
If Nic had two miscarriages and was not cheating on her husband or doing IVF infertility treatments, that suggests her husband isn't sterile.

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Re: Nicole, Scientology and getting Tom some tail

Post by stargazer » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:23 am

SuzanneMarie wrote: Boy, I can't wait. Which tabloid will you mine for 'inside info' this time?

According to Kidman's Vanity Fair interview, her miscarriage occurred early in her marriage to Cruise. So it would not have been the reason for her divorce from him, ten years later.
Wrong assumption. It's cited in their divorce papers which you can find at the Smoking Gun. According to Kidman then, there were two miscarriages... early in the marriage and very late in it.
1) Responding to her husband's February divorce petition, Nicole Kidman contends that she was pregnant with the actor's baby when he abruptly announced he was filing for divorce--and that Cruise rejected her plea to enter marriage counseling. In a May 2 Los Angeles Superior Court filing, Kidman, who suffered a miscarriage, stated that she was "shocked" when Cruise told her "that he no longer wanted to live with her" only weeks after the couple had celebrated their 10th anniversary. (8 pages)
ETA: Eh, missed i'mglib's response. Sorry for redundancy.
Last edited by stargazer on Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by songbird » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:26 am

SuzanneMarie wrote:If Nic had two miscarriages and was not cheating on her husband or doing IVF infertility treatments, that suggests her husband isn't sterile.
TC would be touched to know that you care. :wink:
Braveheart's Girlfriend wrote:WOW! So Tom's lying here to Katie Couric in their interview during PR for The Last Samurai.
Lying. Tsk-tsk, why such harsh language? Don't you know... he was simply telling an "acceptable truth." :lol:

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Post by I'mglib » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:28 am

Yay, Suzanne Marie and BFG agree!
SM said:
If Nic had two miscarriages and was not cheating on her husband or doing IVF infertility treatments, that suggests her husband isn't sterile.
BFG said:
Maybe the kid that Nicole was carrying was Tom's!!!

My theory is that somehow adopting Bella drove them back to Scientology. This would fit the rumor that Bella had scieno birth parents. Bella was a huge carrot that drew them back in (come back to COS and you get this baby).

This fits perfectly with what BFG said (that they left COS and came back), and what the Vanity Fair article said (where Nicole says there's some mystery story about Bella's adoption).
I ask how she came to be such a young mother, and Kidman admits that she wanted to have children from the age of 17. She was 22 when she met Cruise, and "from the minute Tom and I were married, I wanted to have babies." She pauses, "And we lost a baby early on, so that was really very traumatic. And that's when it came that we should adopt Bella." Cryptically, she adds, "There's a complicated background to that, given that I never speak much about many things. One day maybe that story will be told. So that's the way it came up, and we adopted Bella when I was 25."

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