Abortion in the Sea Org -- "Self-Determination?"

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
Post Reply
User avatar
SchwimmelPuckel
Posts: 2262
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by SchwimmelPuckel » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:18 pm

Ladybirds references above to 'Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health' DMSMH is an early example of Hubbards many attempts at '3'rd partying' everybodys moms and dads. Intent seems to be disruption of family allegiance.

Turns out that the most evil your mother could do to you is not abortion, but rather being a member of Scientology!
[i]Ask not what [url=http://www.lermanet.com][color=blue]Scientology[/color][/url] can do for you, ask what the F*arck! is going on.[/i]

User avatar
lulu_belle
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 12:51 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by lulu_belle » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:22 pm

Braveheart's Girlfriend wrote:P.S. Ladybird, didn't Hubbard to those same things? Wasn't Hubbard behind the "no children" policy in the Sea Org?
From what I know, he didn't expressly forbid having children.

He didn't want kids on the ship; if you got pregnant on the ship, you had to go to a land base. And he didn't want kids on the base. (I've specifically seen things where he talked about not having them in PAC; I assume it was the same for the other bases.) He wanted a ranch set up for the kids.

There was an Int Ranch and a PAC Ranch ten years ago. From what I've heard, I guess the church sold them both off.

User avatar
Ladybird
Posts: 5630
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:22 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by Ladybird » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:05 pm

Blown for Good from ARS Newsgroup - repost -

viewtopic.php?p=174967#174967Abortions.

This one is a whopper. More and more girls are getting
abortions there. So much so, they had to start going to different
abortion clinics as it there were some girls coming back 3 and 4 times
and girls coming in on a weekly basis. With the MO office running all
of the abortions and setting it up - it was a bit odd. Finally the
girls had to deal with it themselves and no one from the Church could
go with. I would say that the Int Base has about 50 abortions a year.
The ones that keep the babies get shipped off to nowheresville. That
has not happened in awhile. 100% have had abortions for the last 10
years at least.

MO = Medical Officer, This has been known about for years... if you refuse to have an abortion, one girl i know personally was handed $50 and dropped off at a bus station.

User avatar
'Alert'
Posts: 5222
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:09 pm
Location: Bondi Beach
Contact:

Post by 'Alert' » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:55 am

*bump*
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

User avatar
Ladybird
Posts: 5630
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:22 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by Ladybird » Fri May 26, 2006 7:34 pm

This thread has some very shocking stories and affidavits about forced and coerced abortions in the scientology Sea Org.

Ida Camburn posted this one today on ARS:

http://www.planetkc.com/sloth/sci/mary.tabayoyon.html

A friend of mine, Betty Hardin, who works in the treasury division of
Golden Era Productions, told me that she used to transport the pregnant
women at the base to Riverside, California for their abortions. For
about a year, she transported women almost weekly to the Planned
Parenthood Center, in Riverside, so that they could have their
abortions and follow up check ups that were needed. She said it just
became routine. Pregnant Sea Org members were sent to the Planned
Parenthood Center to get their abortions. When they returned to the
base they went to Ethics.

The term "Ethics" is used to name the place you go to have your ethics
be back put in. To explain this in regular terms, you are sent to
ethics any time you've gone off the rails, like went against Command
Intention, mistakenly or purposefully, and the ethics officer would
then work with you until you were again unswervingly dedicated to
advancing Scientology and had made up the "damage". I will explain more
about Ethics and its methods later.

Betty Hardin said, once formerly pregnant women were back from having
their abortions, they would be sent to Ethics and made to do "lower
conditions". Lower conditions are, from the lowest on up; Confusion,
Treason, Enemy, Doubt, and Liability. Each one of these lower
conditions have an exact set of steps you follow. once you get through
all the steps of all the lower conditions, successfully, and only the
Ethics officer can officially determine if you have gotten through it
correctly, and thus let you go on to the next higher condition, you are
a gung-ho Sea Org member again with new and revitalized determinism to
never make a mistake again that would cause or threaten any harm to
your group.

Ida Camburn

User avatar
Tamaritha
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:53 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by Tamaritha » Fri May 26, 2006 7:44 pm

Here's the thing: my culture and upbringing dictates that an abortion is just like having a live birth: the woman who has just had an abortion or a miscarriage should be treated with more concern to their health, if anything, than a mother who has given birth.

People always seem to forget what a physically painful and traumatic experience abortion is. Getting those girls who've barely recovered from such an operation into self-shaming and physical labour is disgusting.
That's what you get when you bring Postulation into a MEST fight.

User avatar
Ladybird
Posts: 5630
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:22 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by Ladybird » Fri May 26, 2006 7:51 pm

From Michael Reuss today (5/2/06):

As for Scientology and abortion, the cult actually promotes abortion for
the members of it's elite group, called the "Sea Org." The Sea Org
believes that parents who have divided loyalties make less productive
zombies, er, I mean "volunteer workers." Almost nothing divides
loyalties like a new baby.

But as in all cults, influence is not always absolute, and the cult
doesn't always get it's way.

Some Sea Org parents give birth and keep their children. Some actually
quit the Sea Org in order to have the time to rear children properly.
Unfortunately, some parents stay in the Sea Org and let the "Cadet Orgs"
rear their children for them (these children have some genuine horror
stories to tell). And others give birth and give their children up for
adoption. Indeed, the adopted children of Tom Cruise and Nichole Kidman
were most likely birthed by Sea Org members.

Michael Reuss
Honorary Kid

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

From Skip today:

Well, here's an LRH abortion stance for you.

He wouldn't allow kids on the Apollo ship.

Irene Howey (later to become Irene Dirman) was a top executive forced
to leave the ship if she wanted to take her child to term (she left).

I dated Nikki Merwin (who was married to Rick Merwin when she was on
the Apollo). She was Mary Sue Hubbard's "communicator" (secretary) for
13 years. She ate dinner with the Hubbards most nights while on the
Apollo. With the full knowledge (and no doubt, approval) of Elwrong the
Commode Door himself, she had three abortions while on the ship.

How's that for a stance from "Source"? - Skipper

User avatar
'Alert'
Posts: 5222
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:09 pm
Location: Bondi Beach
Contact:

Post by 'Alert' » Sat May 27, 2006 1:36 pm

I am perplexed...women in the Sea Org have to endure MUCH more than than men do. Men have it easy by comparison, Hubbard had such a HATE for women IMHO and regarded them like 'cattle'. I couldnt imagine the emotional turmoil of being FORCED to abort a pregnancy. I shake me head in disbelief that it STILL continues to this day..children are to be cherished..nurtured..LOVED, not TERMINATED or viewed as some EFFING burden containing BT's THAT DONT EVEN EXIST..Hubbard KNEW that BT's where a 'mock up'...but 'run of the mill' Scientologists NEVER get to know that..money is what it takes to get 'up the Bridge'....AND total surrender of any capacity to process in a logical fashion.
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

User avatar
KMomma
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:19 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by KMomma » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:52 pm

bump

User avatar
Braveheart's Girlfriend
Posts: 1037
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:26 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by Braveheart's Girlfriend » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:37 pm

Hey KMomma, :P how you be?

Coerced abortion is a despicable human rights abuse. I can't see anywhere in Hubbard's writings where he was determined to prevent human rights abuses - which he so freely and affect-deficiently ordered to be performed on his own followers and on his detractors in so many prescribed behaviors, including but not limited to coerced abortions in the Sea Org.

I imagine choosing an abortion over having the baby is enough of a trauma, or "upset," in Scientology terms, for most people; to have one's "eternity" - i.e., their progress "up the bridge" threatened by not aborting a child must be one of the most horrible things a Scientologist can experience.

I include this information about coerced Sea Org abortions on the flyers I leave in various places. I think it's one of those "well-known secrets" that I haven't seen on picket signs or leaflets (doesn't mean there aren't any, just I haven't seen them).

Apparently the baby doesn't have a spirit in the womb. Is that right? If, so, how does that compute? Does that mean the baby doesn't have theta (spirit) until some Scientologist who's just died flies (spiritually wing-ed) by a maternity ward to pick up where it left off in the baby's body and somehow infuses it with its now dead or dying spirit? It enters the baby's spiritual vacuum with thetanness?

How did Hubbard "know" a dead Scientologist's thetan would pick up a new baby's body in a maternity ward?

User avatar
KMomma
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:19 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by KMomma » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:54 pm

Hi BG, I'm doing great, just trying to get rid of a lingering summer cold. Allergies, those damn BT's :lol: How about you?

I'm not sure where I read it, I'll have to go dig around again. But, I'm pretty sure I saw some policy Hubbard wrote about NOT getting abortions and that it was low toned. I'm not sure where that all fits in to the abortion policy in the SO though. It is quite sickening to imagine not only a girl forced to have an abortion against her will then made to do lower conditions because of it.

About the spirit of the baby in the womb. I can't imagine what Hubbard thought, honestly. From all the reports and research with his dabble in black magic and home abortions, he is one sick soul. I'm sure right now he is in a place fitting to what he deserves :twisted:

User avatar
Braveheart's Girlfriend
Posts: 1037
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:26 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by Braveheart's Girlfriend » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:14 pm

KMomma wrote:About the spirit of the baby in the womb. I can't imagine what Hubbard thought, honestly. From all the reports and research with his dabble in black magic and home abortions, he is one sick soul. I'm sure right now he is in a place fitting to what he deserves :twisted:
Well yes, when I allow myself to imagine such a place I imagine him there.

He managed to not suffer much at the end of his life because he was full of drugs apparently, so it would be comforting to think he got his comeuppance somewhere along "the line."

User avatar
PTS
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:40 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by PTS » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:49 am

The anti-distractionist says,"This is a must see".

lobsang
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:23 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by lobsang » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:00 pm

Thank you for bumping this.

I didn't read the whole thread because it made me too sad.
One question comes up.

How explains Scientology following discrepancy:

One saves engrams from parents behaviour during the pregnancy and on the other hand for a forced abortion the tell the girls there is no spirit in the body they carry in their womb. If there is no spirit, thetan or whatever, who saves the engrams, the hipbone BT?

User avatar
Braveheart's Girlfriend
Posts: 1037
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:26 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Post by Braveheart's Girlfriend » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:46 pm

"the hipbone BT" ROFL!

As if ANY of that crappola makes sense. Maybe the engram entered the body via the knitting needles Hubbard was so fond of, and somehow then managed to burrough throw the uterine wall and into the baby, but I'm not Dianetically qualified to address these speculations, thank Xenu. :roll:

Post Reply
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests